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 Christians who refused gay wedding cake, forced to close |
doyle |
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JLarry |
| May God bless this couple for standing up to their values. I pray their business will prosper more than ever. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
9/3/13 9:20 am
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c6thplayer1 |
There is only ONE way to stop this type of harassment and that is to get just as ugly as the harasser.
Here's a good example;
Ever wonder why the Hells Angels or Mongols motorcycle club never faces harassment from any group? Its quite obvious , they would fight back and get a little nastier than their aggressor and the aggressor knows this and are afraid to confront these clubs about anything.
I think it would be funny to see the gay group harass one of these motorcycle clubs , but the cowards never will...  |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
9/3/13 9:42 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| I feel for them but when you own a business, you can't pick and choose who you want to do business with. Christians have done the same thing trying to run people out of business that they disagreed with . How many boycotts have we done like the one against Disney? Though physical threats are not right, voicing an opinion of "hoping you go out of business" is no worse than what I have heard Christians do. Bottom line, you cannot discriminate against people because they are different than you. Lester Maddox found out about this back in the 60s. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/3/13 9:46 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | you can't pick and choose who you want to do business with. |
no shirts, no shoes, no service
Man, where are the protests from Barefeet of America? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/3/13 10:38 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | you can't pick and choose who you want to do business with. |
no shirts, no shoes, no service
Man, where are the protests from Barefeet of America? |
I don't think that falls under a discrimination against a certain group of people and is a health issue. I did see a a sign at a cafe this week that said that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I don't think that is legal. You walk into my place and I refuse you service because your Mama is ugly.  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
9/3/13 10:46 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | I don't think that falls under a discrimination against a certain group of people and is a health issue. |
Where is Lord Chancellor, lol. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/3/13 10:48 am
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bonnie knox |
| Okay, I am having a problem with the headline. What "force" was used here? Was it a matter of economics--an organized boycott? Was it from pressures of physical violence (and if so, was that reported to the police)? Was there actually a demand from legal authorities? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/3/13 10:53 am
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peterz3fo |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | There is only ONE way to stop this type of harassment and that is to get just as ugly as the harasser.
Here's a good example;
Ever wonder why the Hells Angels or Mongols motorcycle club never faces harassment from any group? Its quite obvious , they would fight back and get a little nastier than their aggressor and the aggressor knows this and are afraid to confront these clubs about anything.
I think it would be funny to see the gay group harass one of these motorcycle clubs , but the cowards never will... |
I'm pretty sure this is in the Sermon on the Mount! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 395
9/3/13 12:54 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
There are ways to beat this. Simply quote them some outrageously high price. They'll go elsewhere.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
9/3/13 1:12 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
| peterz3fo wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: | There is only ONE way to stop this type of harassment and that is to get just as ugly as the harasser.
Here's a good example;
Ever wonder why the Hells Angels or Mongols motorcycle club never faces harassment from any group? Its quite obvious , they would fight back and get a little nastier than their aggressor and the aggressor knows this and are afraid to confront these clubs about anything.
I think it would be funny to see the gay group harass one of these motorcycle clubs , but the cowards never will... |
I'm pretty sure this is in the Sermon on the Mount! |
Well I thought about that but lets examine what the results would have been if David didn't stand up to the Giant.
I'm quite sure that David was no less of a Christian after slaying the Giant. He may have even loved the giant. But he did resort to violent measures to stop the tyrant and was blessed thereafter. Hmmm.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
9/3/13 2:56 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | There are ways to beat this. Simply quote them some outrageously high price. They'll go elsewhere. |
Agreed. That's how it is done. Tell them you don't have an Adam and Steve mold - and to create it by hand would cost an extra $5,000. If they pony up the money - pay another company to make the cake - pocket $5,000 for doing nothing - and your conscience is ok.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
9/3/13 5:20 pm
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Nick Park |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: |
I'm quite sure that David was no less of a Christian after slaying the Giant. He may have even loved the giant. But he did resort to violent measures to stop the tyrant and was blessed thereafter. Hmmm.... |
I'm quite sure that David was neither a Christian before he slayed the giant nor afterwards.
When I hear Christian-owned businesses advocating discriminating against those who don't share our beliefs, then I ask myself how we would feel if the boot was on the other foot.
How would we feel if non-Christian contractors refused to repair our church buildings because they don't like our beliefs? What if banks refused mortgages to churches on the grounds that they don't want to facilitate the preaching of a message with which they don't agree? What if Microsoft refused to allow churches to run Windows on their computers?
Now, you might argue that in that case Christians should boycott those companies and take their business elsewhere. But that will only work in societies where Christians are numerous enough to have economic clout.
So let's think about this from another angle:
Would you be OK if Mormon-owned business in Utah refused to serve evangelical Christians?
Would you be OK if Hindu and Muslim-owned businesses refused to provide services to Christians. (Such a scenario would make it next to impossible for churches there to have electricity or running water).
Would you be OK if Catholic-owned businesses refused to deal with Pentecostals in Ireland.
What about in the Middle East? If Muslim-owned businesses refused to deal with Christians then many believers would starve to death.
Once you start thinking about this from a minority perspective, then things seem less clear cut, don't they? Asking businesses to serve all equally, including those with whom they disagree, can be much more a case of protecting Christians than of discriminating against Christians.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/4/13 6:36 am
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bradfreeman |
Let's face it: The cake business is tough. What are the odds the business would struggle or fail without this incident?
The important consideration is not whether or not you serve them (from a spiritual standpoint). The real issue is why you choose to bake or not to bake. What are your considerations:
Taking a stand against homosexuality;
Making a public statement;
Teaching these people a lesson;
Refusing to condone their wedding;
Making money;
Showing them love;
Establishing a relationship with them that allows you to share your faith;
Reaching out to them;
Simply selling a cake;
Pleasing your preacher;
The bakers might want to pre-screen birthday cake buyers about the activities that might go on at the party. Jesus didn't seem to have any concerns with being mis-perceived for eating and drinking with publicans and sinners. The church crowd didn't like it either.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
9/4/13 6:50 am
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c6thplayer1 |
| Nick Park wrote: | | c6thplayer1 wrote: |
I'm quite sure that David was no less of a Christian after slaying the Giant. He may have even loved the giant. But he did resort to violent measures to stop the tyrant and was blessed thereafter. Hmmm.... |
I'm quite sure that David was neither a Christian before he slayed the giant nor afterwards.
When I hear Christian-owned businesses advocating discriminating against those who don't share our beliefs, then I ask myself how we would feel if the boot was on the other foot.
How would we feel if non-Christian contractors refused to repair our church buildings because they don't like our beliefs? What if banks refused mortgages to churches on the grounds that they don't want to facilitate the preaching of a message with which they don't agree? What if Microsoft refused to allow churches to run Windows on their computers?
Now, you might argue that in that case Christians should boycott those companies and take their business elsewhere. But that will only work in societies where Christians are numerous enough to have economic clout.
So let's think about this from another angle:
Would you be OK if Mormon-owned business in Utah refused to serve evangelical Christians?
Would you be OK if Hindu and Muslim-owned businesses refused to provide services to Christians. (Such a scenario would make it next to impossible for churches there to have electricity or running water).
Would you be OK if Catholic-owned businesses refused to deal with Pentecostals in Ireland.
What about in the Middle East? If Muslim-owned businesses refused to deal with Christians then many believers would starve to death.
Once you start thinking about this from a minority perspective, then things seem less clear cut, don't they? Asking businesses to serve all equally, including those with whom they disagree, can be much more a case of protecting Christians than of discriminating against Christians. |
Good post but my post was not in reference to discrimination but was referring to the harassment that this group was giving to the Baker.
Myself , I despise discrimination almost as much as I do harassment.
HEre are a few examples from the site , and these are just the ones reported.
" physical threats "
"vicious telephone calls and emails"
"should be shot and even raped"
"badgered and harassed"
As far as David being a Christian - This text seems pretty clear to me that his faith is in the Lord.
1 Samuel 17:45
David said to the Philistine, “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
9/4/13 10:18 am
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| Consider ... |
Poimen |
Knowingly providing services for an immoral event is participating in the immoral event, and is objectional and rejectable on the basis of moral conscious and religious conviction -- and should be legally protected in the USA based on the 1st ammendment.
Telling someone who wants to buy a donut to eat that you will not sell to them because they are gay would be discrimination without a moral or religious basis. However, declining to bake a cake celebrating the sinful pervesion of marriage and human sexuality IS from a moral and religious basis. Furthermore, to make the cake anyhow, and take the money in the name of "it's just business", brings up the issue of filthy lucre, greed, and covetousness (which is idolatry) -- yet further religious grounds for declining services to such an event.
The State of Oregeon trying to compell Christian business owners to support homosexual events with there services is no different from the Fed trying to compel Christian business owners and Christian medical institutions to provide abortificants in the name of Obamacare.
Furthermore, regardless as to whether any branch of government says otherwise, forcing (legally compelling) Christians to provides business services where doing so violates their religious convictions and beliefs is itself illegal, being a violation of their 1st ammendment rights.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."
Last edited by Poimen on 9/4/13 12:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/4/13 10:47 am
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mytimewillcome |
Make the cake. Make some money. Done.
Its not like refusing to make the cake will somehow turn them straight.
Nick Park- your post was spot on. Outstanding. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
9/4/13 10:51 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| I'm more on Nick Park's side of this debate than any other, but let me take it to an extreme. I'm a web developer. If I was approached by a pornography company and asked to provide a quote for a website, what would you suggest I do? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
9/4/13 11:08 am
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Poimen |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Make the cake. Make some money. Done. |
Beware filthy lure. You cannot serve God and Mammon. The love of money is the root of all evil.
| Quote: | | Its not like refusing to make the cake will somehow turn them straight. |
No, but taking pleasure in unrighteousness (I'll gladly make a buck off them) is tantamount to complicitness in their sin. Touch not the unclean thing.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/4/13 11:24 am
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Poimen |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | I'm a web developer. If I was approached by a pornography company and asked to provide a quote for a website, what would you suggest I do? |
Wouldn't knowingly engaging your business in making such a site make you complicit in the sin perpetuated by the site? At any rate, whatever you do, do it to glorify God. So then, if it doesn't glorify God ... 
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."
Last edited by Poimen on 9/4/13 12:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/4/13 11:29 am
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