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 You Have to Agree To This to See COG Finances Online - Why? |
sixfigureincome |
I login to my ministers report today to see the financial info. I then click on Financial Info. I then get this statement below that I have to agree or disagree with.
"I understand the confidential nature of this information and agree to not download, copy, or disseminate in any form:
-I agree with this statement
-I do not agree with this statement"
International Executive Committee, why do we have to agree to this statement to see the information? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 268
11/15/12 11:20 am
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Cojak |
It is probably like most Yes or no stuff on the net, say no and you do not get it.
I personally do not care but as members some do. Since they are the ones who donate, tithe and sacrifice to give the majority of the finances, why cannot a lowly member see the data.
Someone has determined we are not wise enough I guess, and we are not capable of knowing such fine things as finances. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/15/12 1:39 pm
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theElder |
It is obvious that the EC is not going to be able to satisfy some no matter what they do to change. That is unfortunate and probably one of the reasons they took so long to actually provide this information!
They are in a no win situation as demonstrated by the original post above.
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1924
11/15/12 1:52 pm
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Billy Humphrey |
| That report is an incredible amount of transparency! Way to go COG EC!!! Thank You!!! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 254
11/15/12 2:16 pm
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Cojak |
| theElder wrote: | It is obvious that the EC is not going to be able to satisfy some no matter what they do to change. That is unfortunate and probably one of the reasons they took so long to actually provide this information!
They are in a no win situation as demonstrated by the original post above.
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IT IS A FAIR QUESTION!!
Of course you are right Elder, but as a member I have no say so in the business meetings on the floor of the General Assembly, and most members will not attend the open sessions, and of course very few folks get a chance to talk there. So I decided to express my opinion here, sorta with the poster..
Anyone is ignorant to assume every one is going to be a yes man. And if someone cannot stand that little heat they should not be in a position of authority.
The financial end of the State of Florida was opened up, there was no great up roar. There were a few loud mouths, but did it last? Did it injure the state of Florida, NO! it allowed the ministers and members, much more insight as to the needs of the state. Finances improved.
If you think for a moment I, and many others do not know that there has been mismanagement with hidden books, you are asleep. (I think you know this also).
The one thing I KNOW NOW that I did not know before the economy hit the skids, WE STILL OWE MILLIONS OR OUR GREAT HQ COMPLEX.
It does not take a financial genius to know that we should be debt free so we could be using more to further the gospel. If you know anything about interest, you know that it is best NOT TO PAY IT!
Anyway, yep there is going to be some back lash, but it won't be long, and it will only help in the long run. This is a first step, I am glad for it. Now leave us questioners alone! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/15/12 2:25 pm
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| Yeah, there's a way to please everyone... |
Aaron Scott |
Very simply, make it PUBLIC.
Now, I am not wanting to complain, for this is still a big step forward. But as long as it can be perceived that there is an attempt to hold information close...it WILL be perceived that way by some.
Again, I've been a faithful member longer than many pastors have been saved...and I can't see the numbers? What scripture is that based on? So someone might join the Church of God JUST to see the numbers? Really? And if so, what do we have to hide? And further, why are we to think that a credentialed minister might not either share the info with a bad guy...or be the bad guy?
Just put it out there...weather any complaints...and sail on into a new day. It's that simple.
Again, however, I am thankful that we have at least take a small step forward. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
11/15/12 3:52 pm
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bonnie knox |
If I remember correctly this information had been offered before to certain individuals who would agree not to discuss it.
It sounds as if that hasn't changed. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/15/12 4:13 pm
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RevSDH |
Does it go against the rules to show another minister the report who does not report online, or isn't tech savvy enough to know how to find the report?
_________________
Stephen D. Henderson |
Friendly Face
Posts: 266
11/15/12 4:14 pm
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| This is a significant step... |
KevinWallace |
And I applaud Bishop Mark Williams and Bishop Tommy Propes and the entire executive committee for this decision. Responsible transparency is a good thing.
You will also enjoy knowing that as of 12pm this afternoon a whopping 15 people had viewed the said report.
_________________
Once I thought was wrong, but...I was mistaken |
Friendly Face
Posts: 441
11/15/12 4:23 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
Hey guys we have to crawl before we walk & walk before we run. Let's enjoy the process & appreciate what we've been given so far.
Some guys act like it's only going to be a good report if they can control the distribution rights.
Read it, dissect it, create a punch list of questions about it & most of all enjoy it. We are 1st generation on this idea & I'm sure it will get much better.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
11/15/12 6:20 pm
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theElder |
Kevin, with all the hoopla folks have generated on Acts I would have thought that all but one or two Treasurers would have been online to see it by now.
Surely you are mistaken! Hasn't every credentialed minister jumped on there by this time? I mean how can you be a real bonifide minister if you haven't viewed that info?
For shame, for shame.
Now to be a little more serious. What I can't figure out is why in the world does a layman who probably never has and never will attend a GA get their britches in an uproar because they can't access the report but their pastor can. If you are so interested in that report go to your pastor and ask he to let you look at it with him.
If that isn't possible take a trip to the next GA and raise cain until you have permission. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1924
11/15/12 6:23 pm
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mytimewillcome |
| I saw the report and was surprised at how much information was released |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
11/15/12 6:23 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
You can't please everybody, especially church folk. No matter what you do, there will be a big time fuss.
The next thing you know, people will want the COG to deliver it to them with donuts and coffee.
Last edited by Eddie Robbins on 11/15/12 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
11/15/12 6:27 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | If you are so interested in that report go to your pastor and ask he to let you look at it with him. |
In other words, ask him to go against what he agreed to when he agreed not to disseminate it in any form? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/15/12 7:06 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | If you are so interested in that report go to your pastor and ask he to let you look at it with him. |
In other words, ask him to go against what he agreed to when he agreed not to disseminate it in any form? |
Bonnie - these are the same ministers that don't know the COG position on alcohol.
This is how it will be worked..."download copy, or disseminate IN ANY FORM" - must mean some type of material form - I can talk about all of it all I want - I am not putting it into a form.
Like in the old days - when prospective minsters were asked if they ever went "mixed bathing" with the opposite sex.(against the teachings at the time). They would say no - and then later brag - I went mixed swimming all the time - but we never "bathed" together.
Easy to do if you want.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
11/15/12 7:48 pm
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Cojak |
| theElder wrote: |
Now to be a little more serious. What I can't figure out is why in the world does a layman who probably never has and never will attend a GA get their britches in an uproar because they can't access the report but their pastor can. If you are so interested in that report go to your pastor and ask he to let you look at it with him.
If that isn't possible take a trip to the next GA and raise cain until you have permission. |
My pastor is a died in the wool COG company man, great guy, and for sure he is not going to break any rules.
And believe it or not I have attended many General Assemblies. Credentialed and just as a lowly member, not even a member of the church council. I am positive that one member could really get that changed, especially if it was me, with all my influence.
Now it is funny, most of us do not read our insurance policies all the way thru, but WE CAN, if we would like to.
I very seldom look at the national budget anymore, but I could if I wanted to pay for 46 cases of xerox paper and the time to print it.
The point is, availability. I don't care anymore, but I know folks that do. I think it should be available to them. I am just stating how I feel, I actually think it is headed in the right direction.
Elder, now take your meds and relapse..
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/15/12 8:06 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | If you are so interested in that report go to your pastor and ask he to let you look at it with him. |
In other words, ask him to go against what he agreed to when he agreed not to disseminate it in any form? |
I would like to get a little better handle on this. Showing a board member what the report says is not what a common definition appears to mean:
| Quote: | dis·sem·i·nate
transitive verb \di-ˈse-mə-ˌnāt\
dis·sem·i·nat·eddis·sem·i·nat·ing
Definition of DISSEMINATE
1: to spread abroad as though sowing seed <disseminate ideas>
2: to disperse throughout |
Here is what we are asked to agree to do if we want to view the information:
| Quote: | | I understand the confidential nature of this information and agree to not download, copy, or disseminate in any form: |
I don't see anything in this language that says you must view this material alone. I don't see anything that keeps me from viewing this with other ministers in my church. Surely we would not all be required to bring our own laptops & all get on the internet & all log in & all agree not to disseminate. But all of us would then be able to talk about the info since it is on our own private screen.
Nobody is talking about copying it & spreading it all over the place (which is what disseminate means) & violating the agreement. I won't let anyone take notes but it is right there in front of us after we log on & I don't think it would be a violation if a board member wanted to view it on my computer. I don't have anyone asking to see it nor do I plan to offer to show it. I'm open to changing my opinion if I'm wrong but I am reading a statement & I see it pretty clear cut.
Besides, after thoroughly going over all the details in this financial report, I don't see anything that is a shock nor do I see anything that is going to create such a buzz of curiosity that people are going to want to stand in line & look at it.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
11/15/12 8:33 pm
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Kyle Morrow |
Huge step forward! I applaud this Executive Committee in taking this huge step and believe this will go a long way towards establishing a two way trust relationship between Cleveland and the local church. I know that people will always find something to complain about, and even if the material was publicly available, some would still not be satisfied. This is a time that we celebrate a big win for the body!
_________________
Love. Grow. Serve. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
11/15/12 9:03 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | get their britches in an uproar |
how exactly does that work? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/15/12 9:14 pm
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Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | get their britches in an uproar |
how exactly does that work? |
Cute Bonnie!  again!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/16/12 12:33 am
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