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 Shake things up here: Robert Morris..... |
caseyleejones |
I have enjoyed RM. For those that don't know, he had a moral failure 35 years ago. He was 20 and the girl was maybe 12? Went on for a few years. He was a young preacher.
He was caught. He repented and stepped down. He sought restoration for a few years. Here we are 35 years later discussing how he messed up 35 years.
So, is he disqualified forever? What is he supposed to do now? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/22/24 8:33 pm
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| Re: Shake things up here: Robert Morris..... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| caseyleejones wrote: | I have enjoyed RM. For those that don't know, he had a moral failure 35 years ago. He was 20 and the girl was maybe 12? Went on for a few years. He was a young preacher.
He was caught. He repented and stepped down. He sought restoration for a few years. Here we are 35 years later discussing how he messed up 35 years.
So, is he disqualified forever? What is he supposed to do now? |
He's disqualified because he lied about it for 35 years. He said it was a young lady. His book also said he stepped down because of pride in his twenties - no mention that he was caught molesting a 12 year old. If you keep lying about it - you have not repented.
Besides, a doctor molests a 12 year old - that license is gone forever.
A lawyer molests a 12 year old, his license is gone forever.
A teacher molests a 12 year old - his license is gone forever.
There is service to be done for God - but never as a pastor - certainly he would have to be supervised at all times around girls 17 and under - as he would have to register as a sex offender predator.
Good riddance.
Be sure your sins will find you out. He destroyed a young lady permanently. I truly hope he does repent. But he has not up until now. Perhaps he has crossed the line that the Spirit will never call him - after rejecting repentance all these years.
(Is that shaken up enough)
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/23/24 8:49 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Something about Morris always seemed “off” to me. I never could listen to him for more than a few minutes. Frankly, he seemed gay to me. Obviously a pervert, in any case.
I pray for his victim(s) to find healing and peace of mind. I pray for his salvation. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
6/23/24 11:37 pm
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FLRon |
Found at Julieroys.com sorry cannot link to article
“2005 Email to Robert Morris Citing ‘100 Counts of Child Molestation’ Calls into Question What Elders Knew”.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 787
6/24/24 9:38 am
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UncleJD |
| Not only did RM lie for 35 years. No less than 2 different church boards covered up a case of child molestation. I know the second one can claim they didn't know, but how do you not look at the details and ask a few simple questions that would have confirmed the truth. Even more upsetting to me is that this poor family tried, for 30 + years to handle this in the Biblical way by not involving the temporal authorities and keeping it inside the church. And how were they rewarded for that? By keeping it covered up and fake "discipline" that never ended with any real penalty paid by anyone as long as the family was willing to keep it out of the public, the churches were HAPPY to keep it hidden and not fully addressed. They knew that nothing less than expulsion from ministry was the only right thing to do for child molestation, but instead, let him say things like "God told me to take two years off" and "young lady" and such, all lies, lies, lies. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
6/24/24 10:11 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Hopefully, such grievous revelations will forever cure us of ‘celebrity’ Christianity, but it probably won’t. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
6/24/24 11:17 am
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FLRon |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Hopefully, such grievous revelations will forever cure us of ‘celebrity’ Christianity, but it probably won’t. |
Sadly, the church is addicted to the cult of personality
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 787
6/24/24 3:53 pm
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| By law sexual abuse of a minor is ... |
Mat |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Not only did RM lie for 35 years. No less than 2 different church boards covered up a case of child molestation. I know the second one can claim they didn't know, but how do you not look at the details and ask a few simple questions that would have confirmed the truth. Even more upsetting to me is that this poor family tried, for 30 + years to handle this in the Biblical way by not involving the temporal authorities and keeping it inside the church. And how were they rewarded for that? By keeping it covered up and fake "discipline" that never ended with any real penalty paid by anyone as long as the family was willing to keep it out of the public, the churches were HAPPY to keep it hidden and not fully addressed. They knew that nothing less than expulsion from ministry was the only right thing to do for child molestation, but instead, let him say things like "God told me to take two years off" and "young lady" and such, all lies, lies, lies. |
By law sexual abuse of a minor is required to be reported to authorities and any church minister/elder/deacon/trustee/board member/teacher (and others) having knowledge of such abuse is a mandatory reporter.
If it had been a daycare worker, or even a parent, accused of such acts, the authorities, starting with Child Protective Services must be contacted. There is no such thing as keeping it within the "church" and applying "church" discipline. The matter must be investigated and if the case merits prosecution must be handled by the courts. If found guilty in a court of law, there is no full restoration as if it never happened.
Most all on this board are mandatory reporters of abuse, both sexual and physically, of children. A man, or women, could possible be restored after having extra marital sexual encounter, perhaps even several, however child sexual abuse is not simply a "sexual encounter" it a crime/sin against the innocent, not the consenting.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
6/25/24 8:32 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. KJV
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/25/24 9:15 am
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| Re: By law sexual abuse of a minor is ... |
FLRon |
| Mat wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Not only did RM lie for 35 years. No less than 2 different church boards covered up a case of child molestation. I know the second one can claim they didn't know, but how do you not look at the details and ask a few simple questions that would have confirmed the truth. Even more upsetting to me is that this poor family tried, for 30 + years to handle this in the Biblical way by not involving the temporal authorities and keeping it inside the church. And how were they rewarded for that? By keeping it covered up and fake "discipline" that never ended with any real penalty paid by anyone as long as the family was willing to keep it out of the public, the churches were HAPPY to keep it hidden and not fully addressed. They knew that nothing less than expulsion from ministry was the only right thing to do for child molestation, but instead, let him say things like "God told me to take two years off" and "young lady" and such, all lies, lies, lies. |
By law sexual abuse of a minor is required to be reported to authorities and any church minister/elder/deacon/trustee/board member/teacher (and others) having knowledge of such abuse is a mandatory reporter.
If it had been a daycare worker, or even a parent, accused of such acts, the authorities, starting with Child Protective Services must be contacted. There is no such thing as keeping it within the "church" and applying "church" discipline. The matter must be investigated and if the case merits prosecution must be handled by the courts. If found guilty in a court of law, there is no full restoration as if it never happened.
Most all on this board are mandatory reporters of abuse, both sexual and physically, of children. A man, or women, could possible be restored after having extra marital sexual encounter, perhaps even several, however child sexual abuse is not simply a "sexual encounter" it a crime/sin against the innocent, not the consenting.
Mat |
My daughter is an elementary grade school teacher and has reported a few parents for possible abuse. The stories are horrific and crushing, and leave her asking if this is something she wants to continue doing. The flip side of course is if not her reporting these things, then who?
Predators like Mr. Morris should never be permitted back in a pulpit or allowed to be near children. Yes, extend as much grace to him as possible so far as his soul is concerned, but that’s where it ends for me.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 787
6/26/24 8:00 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Recently, a relative who’s a pastor’s wife tearfully shared with me how her BIL, who had for years been esteemed as a leader in his church, scout leader, youth sports coach, etc., had been found out as a pedophile. This same relative is a big supporter of Swaggart, especially his more recent emphasis on the ‘sinful nature,’ and how without a ‘revelation of the Cross’, as Swaggart teaches it, all are bound to commit sin due to the supposedly inherited sinful nature. I didn’t have the heart to point out the pathetic theology she and her whole family had embraced, and how it was actually the biggest, most perfect excuse imaginable for her BIL’s pedophilic actions.
Of course, Swaggart’s teaching on this, while very convenient in his case (he claims this is why he was unable to live right before he got ‘the revelation’ of what he calls ‘the message of the Cross’), is nothing new, but is merely Augustinianism recycled for a modern age, and amounts to the perfect excuse for any and all sin—it’s not “the Devil made me do it,” it’s “GOD made me do it by deterministically giving me a sinful nature that caused me to sin—insert whatever kind of sin one may want to excuse—it’s all a direct result of GOD causing mankind to have a ‘sinful nature’ after Adam sinned.
Odd thing that God himself apparently forgot to mention this supposed inborn inability to do right (freewill) when He confronted Cain in Genesis 4:
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” NIV
If everyone proceeding from Adam’s loins is inherently unable to do right, but must inexorably always sin in one way or another, then it would have been every bit as true for Cain as for anyone that he could never hope to resist the power of his ‘sinful nature’, and thus couldn’t help but commit murder. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
6/26/24 12:44 pm
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| To be honest, I never took the time to understand Swaggart's "cross" thing |
Mat |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Recently, a relative who’s a pastor’s wife tearfully shared with me how her BIL, who had for years been esteemed as a leader in his church, scout leader, youth sports coach, etc., had been found out as a pedophile. This same relative is a big supporter of Swaggart, especially his more recent emphasis on the ‘sinful nature,’ and how without a ‘revelation of the Cross’, as Swaggart teaches it, all are bound to commit sin due to the supposedly inherited sinful nature. I didn’t have the heart to point out the pathetic theology she and her whole family had embraced, and how it was actually the biggest, most perfect excuse imaginable for her BIL’s pedophilic actions.
Of course, Swaggart’s teaching on this, while very convenient in his case (he claims this is why he was unable to live right before he got ‘the revelation’ of what he calls ‘the message of the Cross’), is nothing new, but is merely Augustinianism recycled for a modern age, and amounts to the perfect excuse for any and all sin—it’s not “the Devil made me do it,” it’s “GOD made me do it by deterministically giving me a sinful nature that caused me to sin—insert whatever kind of sin one may want to excuse—it’s all a direct result of GOD causing mankind to have a ‘sinful nature’ after Adam sinned.
Odd thing that God himself apparently forgot to mention this supposed inborn inability to do right (freewill) when He confronted Cain in Genesis 4:
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” NIV
If everyone proceeding from Adam’s loins is inherently unable to do right, but must inexorably always sin in one way or another, then it would have been every bit as true for Cain as for anyone that he could never hope to resist the power of his ‘sinful nature’, and thus couldn’t help but commit murder. |
To be honest, I never took the time to understand Swaggart's "cross" thing. Your explanation is understandable, listening to Swaggart and his minions has never draw my attention or understanding. What's funny, I find the BYU channel (just down from Jimmy's network on my cable) and all the Mormon programing interesting, yes, wrong, weird, and wacky as far as their culture and beliefs, but interesting. Watching Swaggart is like watching a broken Pentecostalism stuck in a time warp.
Yes, we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but there is no justification for sinner or saint to harm children.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
6/26/24 1:12 pm
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FLRon |
One of the very best responses to JS message of the cross is found here:
https://christiananswerman.com/message-of-the-cross/
Absolutely recommend this article!
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 787
6/26/24 3:10 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
I too have enjoyed some of Robert Morris's sermons but this puts a new light on things.
My question is - was this woman the only one? Pedophiles do not usually just "change" after such an experience. God can indeed forgive them and completely change them and their habits but I've never heard of this happening to even one pedophile (not that they would advertise this.) So chances are, if this happened once, how many others has this happened to?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
6/26/24 10:15 pm
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| If the article ... |
Mat |
If the article is a correct rendering of JS's personal revelation of the "CROSS" it is clear that he (JS) has "crossed" into to both non-Christian and extra-Biblical territory.
Again, I do not watch his shows, listen to his music or buy his books, so I have not taken a deep dive in to his definition of the "true" Gospel. My one thought about JS's teaching is he forgets, there were many crosses, but only one Jesus.
I will say, if I want to listen to rock-a-billy music, I would rather listen to Jerry Lee Lewis' music as it is honest and heartfelt. I found his thoughts on religion (expressed in a documentary I watch), both reflective and open about his own personal struggles.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
6/27/24 11:01 am
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| You could be right ... |
Mat |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | I too have enjoyed some of Robert Morris's sermons but this puts a new light on things.
My question is - was this woman the only one? Pedophiles do not usually just "change" after such an experience. God can indeed forgive them and completely change them and their habits but I've never heard of this happening to even one pedophile (not that they would advertise this.) So chances are, if this happened once, how many others has this happened to? |
You could be right, but in this case, "one and done" applies. Now that its public no doubt there will be other claims of abuse, perhaps many not true (as in "me too"), but maybe there is another one or two out there.
The local church needs to exit any association with RM (and I'm sorry to say his family). Looking at their website, there are many ministers whose lives are going to be turned upside down, even if they were honest brokers and had no knowledge of the issue. Some may ask, where was the gift of discernment in the board?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
6/27/24 11:08 am
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| Is evil good and good evil? |
sonofasoldier |
Unfortunately, we are living in that time where too many Christians call evil good and good evil. How can so many Christians collectively support political candidates who are such immoral reprobates and even prophesy and say they are chosen and anointed of God. With such debauchery in the two leading political parties how can one believe that God is for one and against the other? Does God choose the lesser of two evils or does He reject all evil?
Shouldn’t the church be a counter-culture movement that refuses to support political corruption in any form? If the evangelical movement want to be in politics then at least draft a righteous candidate they can stand behind and support with the largest voting block in America.
The church is the last hope America has. We are letting down our nation and our families. I have witnessed too many churches support corruprt, evil pastors and conceal their evil deeds simply because they are charismatic, good speakers who know how to work a crowd; some even call them anointed. If they grow the church in attendance and finances then that's all that matters to some. Why has that become the litmus test and will it ever change? When will we say enough is enough? When will we come out from among the world and be separate? Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 593
6/29/24 3:35 pm
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
Nature Boy Florida |
| sonofasoldier wrote: | Unfortunately, we are living in that time where too many Christians call evil good and good evil. How can so many Christians collectively support political candidates who are such immoral reprobates and even prophesy and say they are chosen and anointed of God. With such debauchery in the two leading political parties how can one believe that God is for one and against the other? Does God choose the lesser of two evils or does He reject all evil?
Shouldn’t the church be a counter-culture movement that refuses to support political corruption in any form? If the evangelical movement want to be in politics then at least draft a righteous candidate they can stand behind and support with the largest voting block in America.
The church is the last hope America has. We are letting down our nation and our families. I have witnessed too many churches support corruprt, evil pastors and conceal their evil deeds simply because they are charismatic, good speakers who know how to work a crowd; some even call them anointed. If they grow the church in attendance and finances then that's all that matters to some. Why has that become the litmus test and will it ever change? When will we say enough is enough? When will we come out from among the world and be separate? Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
Since I don't know of any non-corrupt politicians running for President - do I sit this one out? Is that your biblical understanding: Christians are shut out from affecting their country at the ballot box if there isn't a candidate that is not sinless?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
7/1/24 6:13 am
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
UncleJD |
| sonofasoldier wrote: | | ...... Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
This is a fantasy, we are in Rome not Israel in the time of the judges. If you believe ANY of the presidents we've had in our lifetimes were saints of God that only means you fell for their pandering. The only wise way to vote is on the candidate that gives the church the most room to thrive and practice what we believe, we don't RELY on the government being a Holy institution at any level. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
7/1/24 8:25 am
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
Mat |
| UncleJD wrote: | | sonofasoldier wrote: | | ...... Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
This is a fantasy, we are in Rome not Israel in the time of the judges. If you believe ANY of the presidents we've had in our lifetimes were saints of God that only means you fell for their pandering. The only wise way to vote is on the candidate that gives the church the most room to thrive and practice what we believe, we don't RELY on the government being a Holy institution at any level. |
You're right, we are electing a president, not a pastor, thought some pastors make presidents look moral.
So, if you're a woman who has sex with a rich man who will be President in 20 years, what do you get? Money.
If you're a woman who has sex with a sitting president (and his brother the AG) what do you get? Dead.
Trump is safer for women then Kennedy, any of them.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
7/1/24 1:59 pm
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