Actscelerate.com

"If this be treason, make the most of it."

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **4/9/20 11:43 am**

On May 29, centuries ago, Patrick Henry uttered those memorable words. How about if in the same spirit of this declaration that the churches declare it NO MORE LOCKDOWN SUNDAY on May 19th. I know the dates do not coincide, but in my opinion, the church has caved far too easily to the politics of the day.
We are free individuals with common sense and judgement.

If this be rebellion, make the most of it.
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 12:00 pm**

Good luck, I guess. Confused

Our church is going to continue loving our neighbors, taking precautions to contain the spread, and working diligently to be the church to each other and to our communities whether together or scattered.

You are not free... you are a slave to Christ. Respectfully, your first mistake here is viewing this issue through the lens of the Constitution rather than the lens of Scripture. The fact that you are literally recommending sin (Rom 13, 1 Pet 2) should be a warning sign that your lens is askew. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (1 Samuel 15:23).

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **4/9/20 12:06 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 12:09 pm**

We can certainly agree to disagree and we can absolutely continue to love each other as brothers regardless of our views. We are both most certainly free to express our opinions.

As a friend, I am just urging very respectful caution that I am not sure you are serving the Lord by advocating rebellion against civil authorities. I cannot see anywhere in Scripture where this is permitted and several places where resistance to God-ordained authorities is condemned.

For sure, our disagreement on this matter does not change my view or love for you nor my desire for your good. I am grateful that you have spoken your mind, and I will end my commentary with that.

Now see that?

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **4/9/20 12:13 pm**

Two people can disagree and still be brothers. Laughing

_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 12:17 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5330 **4/9/20 12:59 pm**

Huh... so you believe that Peter and John were practicing witchcraft when in Acts chapter 4 they were threatened not preach or teach about Jesus anymore and they said, â€œWhether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.â€ The next chapter they were again arrested and beaten for continuing to preach, but this did not stop them. I know, I know, your argument will be that they are not telling us not to preach. But the point is the same, they rebelled against the law that hindered what they knew to do. We are going to disagree, and that is fine, but when one side starts telling people they are promoting sinful behavior by exercising their Christian rights above the law of the land, I see tyranny forming and people embracing it just as the folks embraced the rule of Nazi Germany.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 1:18 pm**

I don't believe that, no. I do not think that situation is at all comparable with this one.

I understand where you are coming from, though I strongly disagree with you. I will respectfully look past your allusion that I and others are advocating a position that is akin to the embrace of the Nazis. I don't think that is a very respectable response to the challenges that Scripture presents for your position.

There are a few instances where Paul stood up for his rights (Acts 16:37-39 for example) and many, many others where he and the other apostles laid their rights down for the sake of others. Perhaps we have an overly American understanding of our "rights" as believers.

But why, Roughrider?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **4/9/20 2:36 pm**

Why should we do something that has the dire potential of truly hurting people?

If the country was trying to shut down churches because they just didn't like churches, and everyone else was free to come and go and gather as they pleased, then, YES, you'd have a point.

BUT THAT IT NOT WHAT IS GOING ON!

Virtually everyone is locked down--businesses, schools, etc. This is NOT directed at the church, so far as I can tell. Instead, I think some churches are trying to get mileage out of by acting like they are all "brave" and have "faith" by doing what is patently foolish.

Maybe if you're in a rural area, and have only a few folks in church, etc. But to bring people together in a bigger way, to have them exposed to a sickness that has the ability to really hurt people, that is just FOOLISH.

I consider it little more than trying to get attention, for the most part. Yes, drive-in is different. But having church where people are right beside each other, STUPID!

It's not faith, nor is it courageous, to do this. Further, I dare say that if the disease were ebola--with a much, much higher mortality rate--we'd see far fewer idiots doing this.

And if it were a disease that struck at children, I dare say that many mothers would tell their pastors to shut up.

Sorry, that's how I see it.

Roughrider...what's the "dress rehearsal" you mentioned?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **4/9/20 2:40 pm**

I dare say that 90% of churches would STILL have church if businesses and schools were allowed to run, while only churches were shut down. We'd have a revolution!

So what is the dress rehearsal you are speaking of?

Is the claim that the gov't is "practicing" on how to shut down churches? Do you really believe that? I certainly don't. I'm not saying there aren't people who wouldn't like to do that, but it would be a virtual war. Also, our elected officials would have to be put down, since they would know that they aren't going to be reelected if they countenanced such a thing.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 2:54 pm**

I agree, Aaron. You've made a great point that EVERYTHING is shut down and that it is not reasonable to interpret this as an attack against churches.

If this was actually an oppression against churches -- if they were being asked or told to shut down when no one else was -- then an unfathomable number would rise to say with Paul, I am ready not only to be bound but also to die for the name of the Lord. I would be the first in line at church daring the authorities to come stop my worship.

I'm really having difficulty taking seriously the argument that social distancing in the midst of a global pandemic is a form of persecution that the church is willingly accepting.

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **4/9/20 3:04 pm**

Since I believe we will be past the curve and into the warm months by May 19th, then I hope we can indeed gather then. Are you in contact with your city leaders working on a way forward with ideas on how to safely re-engage with the public? I'd think of some ideas like increasing to multiple services, each family can sit together but a minimum distance between family groups, no congregating in the vestibule, etc... There has to be a way forward and its a good opportunity for the Church to lead in my opinion, but flat-out rebellion might be (correctly) seen as dangerous and even a threat to those trying to keep their loved ones alive.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **4/9/20 3:11 pm**

Everything is not shut down.

In my county the liquor store is open for business.

The Churches are shut down.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 3:29 pm**

You can nitpick about what is or isn't an essential business (this is a valid debate), but the fact remains that churches are FAR FAR FAR from the only places where gatherings have been banned or restricted.

Pointing at liquor stores and then saying the church is uniquely oppressed is not correct.

Schools are closed. Libraries are closed. Gyms are closed. Mosques are closed. Mason lodges are closed. Strip clubs are closed. Parks are closed. The list goes on and on.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/9/20 3:46 pm**

Also, not to get off topic, but withdrawal from severe alcoholism can be fatal, and is very damaging to the body even when the person survives. So unfortunately, sorry state of affairs that it is, the liquor store is as essential as the pharmacy unless you want people experiencing severe alcohol withdrawal syndrome and dying and/or using hospital resources that are desperately needed elsewhere.

But it's still a bad example in any case if the point you're trying to prove is that churches are somehow being uniquely oppressed.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **4/9/20 8:45 pm**

If our city was experiencing 20% flu or something like that, I doubt very seriously if our pastors would recommend that EVERYONE come on to church, NO they would be suggesting that anyone effected by the Flu to stay home.

No pastor orders colds or the Flu to leave. Probably most pastors get the flu shot instead of just trusting God to protect them. This may be over kill, but for goodness sake I am not going to believe every conspiracy theory coming down the pike.

The death of my cousin is still BIG in my mind. I saw him walking around at a normal church funeral. Stayed for the funeral of his brother, As healthy as I have ever seen him and two weeks later he was in ICU, one week later he was dead. He had no idea how or where he got the bug. I hugged his neck and we talked for an hour, so far I show no signs or hints of the virus. I am a healthy 80 year old, and I certainly paid and pay attention. Embarassed

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **4/10/20 10:59 am**

The LIQUOR STORE is open.

IMO Dave's response is kind of lame.

I have been around and related to many alcoholics.

I know the drill concerning them.

This whole quarantine stinks.

Even though we are abiding the restrictions.

Methinks something else is afoot.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1865 **4/10/20 12:10 pm**

Where I live, schools are closed. Bars are closed. Restaurants are takeout only. Retailers are closed. Manufacturing plants are closed. Doctors offices and hospitals don't want you coming in unless you're exhibiting multiple symptoms. For me this is not a religious persecution issue at all. I see this as a love your neighbor, submit to the governing authorities issue.

This is just my personal opinion and I don't have any hard feelings towards anyone else. But I think it's a bad testimony to the unsaved to act with disregard for public health and to disobey the governing authorities.

Having said that, if they come out with an edict forbidding me to preach, pray, or worship, then we have something else entirely.

Sheepdogandy...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **4/10/20 2:24 pm**

What do you imagine is afoot (beside the game, of course)?

You may not know what it is about, but what do you even SUSPECT, if you think there is more to this than what seems apparent?

Thanks.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **4/10/20 9:43 pm**