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 Preachers: Are Peterson and Shapiro doing your job? (L) |
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https://mariomurilloministries.wordpress.com/category/ben-shapiro/
What do you think? Are these men filling a gap left by preachers not willing to touch contraversial issues?
Or would you say the topics they cover, or their approach to them, are too different for this to be a fair comparison? Are preachers dealing with these topics, but the world is just not interested?
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Acts-perienced Poster
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1/10/20 10:54 am
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| Re: Preachers: Are Peterson and Shapiro doing your job? (L) |
Resident Skeptic |
| Link wrote: | https://mariomurilloministries.wordpress.com/category/ben-shapiro/
What do you think? Are these men filling a gap left by preachers not willing to touch contraversial issues?
Or would you say the topics they cover, or their approach to them, are too different for this to be a fair comparison? Are preachers dealing with these topics, but the world is just not interested? |
The tendency to remain quiet as the nation rots around us is an unintended fruit of dispensationalist theology, imo. The luminaries of both awakenings were amillennialist for the most part. This too has its unintended errors.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
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Posts: 8065
1/10/20 11:38 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
My understanding is that Edwards (First Great Awakening) was a postmillnialist, as were the leaders of the Second Great Awakening.
In my view, the classical Pentecostal emphatic belief in a ‘latter rain outpouring of the Spirit’ strikes a sort of balance between the excessive pessimism of premillenialism and the excessive optimism of postmillenialism. |
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1/10/20 12:28 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I have watched and/or listened to hours of Peterson’s lectures and talks. What some don’t seem to realize is that Peterson ultimately denies objectivity, does not like the question of whether or not he believes in God, believes we evolved from lower forms of life like lobsters, and when it comes down to it, is really just a humanist who says he acts “as if†God does exist, since that makes the most sense to him as a way to live or evolve.
With much appreciation for much of what he says, his foundation is upon the shifting sands of humanistic, prideful Darwinism. No, he is not doing the job of true gospel preachers. He says, “Stand up straight with your shoulders back.†The Bible says, “Bow down and worship the LORD God almighty. Humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you.†Peterson’s first rule for life is fundamentally opposed to the gospel. The structure built upon such a foundation of sand is demonic and doomed in the end to burn. |
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1/10/20 12:37 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| To add to QW's point -- while I personally appreciate (some to most) of Shapiro's contributions to the discourse, it is also very hard to wrap my mind around the suggestion that a Jewish believer is doing the work of pastors called to proclaim the gospel. |
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1/10/20 12:49 pm
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Patrick Harris |
I think he may be casting to wide of a net on his suppositions.
They are literally thousands of preachers and ministers we have never heard of who are making the pronouncements from the pulpits that Mario says he hasn't heard.
There are people being saved weekly in our church. People being healed and lives being mended. It may not have the audience and exposure that these two have but it's still happening. Want to see preaching that tells it like is watch Loran Livingston on almost any Sunday. He's not trying to make folks happy and live their best life.
I've listened to hours of Jordan Peterson, and while he is very outspoken on things and very unapologetic, just like QW says it's not the true and living gospel that we know and preach. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1323
1/10/20 1:42 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | My understanding is that Edwards (First Great Awakening) was a postmillnialist, as were the leaders of the Second Great Awakening.
You are indeed correct. My mistake.
In my view, the classical Pentecostal emphatic belief in a ‘latter rain outpouring of the Spirit’ strikes a sort of balance between the excessive pessimism of premillenialism and the excessive optimism of postmillenialism.
Good point. Though it seems many early American Pentecostals leaned toward the former.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
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1/10/20 1:55 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
Back to the OP.
I do not feel our primary "job" is to save America. However, if Christians do not save America, it will not be saved.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
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1/10/20 7:55 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | My understanding is that Edwards (First Great Awakening) was a postmillnialist, as were the leaders of the Second Great Awakening.
You are indeed correct. My mistake.
In my view, the classical Pentecostal emphatic belief in a ‘latter rain outpouring of the Spirit’ strikes a sort of balance between the excessive pessimism of premillenialism and the excessive optimism of postmillenialism.
Good point. Though it seems many early American Pentecostals leaned toward the former.
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The early Pentecostals (as well as many revivalistic Christians in the late 1800s) believed emphatically that God would send a mighty last-days outpouring of the Holy Spirit before the coming of the Lord to ripen and bring the final great harvest of souls into the kingdom.
The typical dispensationalist view was that nothing but a great falling away would occur before Jesus returns, and that the Church would be characterized as ‘Laodicean’ and lukewarm at best just prior to the Lord’s imminent return. The typical dispensationalist view was adamant in its opposition to any idea of a widespread soul-winning revival of Christian Faith in the last days.
The postmillennialist view, which informed the Great Awakenings of the 1700s and was 1800s, affirmed an ever-increasing power and pervasiveness of Christian Faith in the last days, with the eventual world domination of Christianity before Christ returns. They saw the ‘millennium’ as being established by the church, somewhat similar to the Kingdom Now view of the 1980s.
In my view, the essential Pentecostal concept of a latter-rain outpouring of the Spirit struck a balance between the pessimism of typical premillenialism and the optimism of postmillenialism. |
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1/11/20 1:59 pm
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| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | My understanding is that Edwards (First Great Awakening) was a postmillnialist, as were the leaders of the Second Great Awakening.
You are indeed correct. My mistake.
In my view, the classical Pentecostal emphatic belief in a ‘latter rain outpouring of the Spirit’ strikes a sort of balance between the excessive pessimism of premillenialism and the excessive optimism of postmillenialism.
Good point. Though it seems many early American Pentecostals leaned toward the former.
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The early Pentecostals (as well as many revivalistic Christians in the late 1800s) believed emphatically that God would send a mighty last-days outpouring of the Holy Spirit before the coming of the Lord to ripen and bring the final great harvest of souls into the kingdom. |
I don't know what scriptures they believed taught this, but it could be passages in Revelation about the harvest or something else that I read through a dispensational lens, that they may have heard taught as post-mil.
If you know the Biblical arguments, I would be glad to hear them. I know some of them relied on the 'latter rain' passage in Joel.
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1/11/20 5:58 pm
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Murillo seems to assume that preachers should be advocates for free speech. I can understand wanting to enjoy free speech. But I'd rather hear a preacher say something like this about free speech.
"The government may give you the right to free speech, but that does not mean that God will recognize it on the day of judgment. You will have to give an account for the blasphemy, lies, slander, and gossip you speak."
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1/13/20 1:59 pm
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