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a book recommendation--Women in the Church (L)

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **5/23/17 5:57 pm**

I just finished reading Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry by Stanley J. Grenz and Denise Muir Kjesbo
I highly recommend it. It carefully (and fairly, I believe) presents the arguments for and against full inclusion of women in ministry and concludes that "...God intends that men and women mutually support each other in all dimensions of life, including within the church and the church's ministry."

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **5/23/17 6:16 pm**

Anybody got a address in Soddy Daisy where I can forward a copy of this book to a certain preacher that NBF an me knows, but I don't wanna call his name or in any way disclose his identity?

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **5/23/17 8:33 pm**

My understanding is that the dear brother from Soddy Daisy has passed on. Now, that's just something I heard through the grapevine, so I'm not 100% sure about that.

Or you could just leave the CoG

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **5/23/17 9:15 pm**

and join the AG as we have from the beginning in 1914 ordained women to EVERY position in ministry.

Laughing

Re: Or you could just leave the CoG

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **5/23/17 9:37 pm**

Re: a book recommendation--Women in the Church (L)

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **5/23/17 9:46 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **5/24/17 9:12 am**

Quiet Wyatt, no, I would not say it presented significant new light on the subject to someone who is generally aware of the arguments for and against. I have the book Tom Sterbens recommended, Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity without Hierarchy. It is excellent, but I have been looking for a book that I could share with people at my church who wouldn't have the time or inclination to read 528 pages and who would need something written on a simpler level. (We keep hearing at my church that the man is the priest of the home, and on Easter one man who had been preselected to give a testimony basically said that the pastor had explained to him that the chain of command was God>Christ>man>wife and that he had not been the spiritual leader in his home like he should have been.)
In that search, this was one of the books I bought. This would probably be a little easier reading, though it can get a bit tedious with presenting both sides.
This book focuses primarily on women in ministry (as opposed, to say, marriage), but it does touch on some of the points such as the meaning of "kephale," the meaning of "ezer" in the creation account, etc. that you will generally find in discussions of complementarianism versus egalitarianism.
Basically, the book makes an argument for women in ministry based on 3 supports: church history, scripture, and Christian theology.
There are 2 chapters on church history. There were a few details that were new to me there (or that I have read and forgotten), such as an altered fresco in the Catacombs of Priscilla which had been changed so that the leader of a Eucharist celebration is male rather than female, and such as the changing of an inscription of a mosaic from "Episcopa Theodora" to "Episcopa Theodo [sp?]" to try to make the name appear male. Another sentence was "Church council records and tombstone epitaphs substantiate the presence of women bishops in the early church." This sentence was footnoted (and the book is heavily footnoted from numerous sources) with an article written by Maria L. Boccia, "Hidden History of Women Leaders of the Church" in the Sept. '90 issue of Journal of Biblical Equality.
There were new-to-me anecdotes in modern history as well. Essentially, pointing out the presence of women ministers throughout church history was not a new concept, but the angle the authors took in presenting the reasoning for the fluctuation in women's involvement throughout church history was encapsulated in a quote also from Boccia: "When leadership involved the charismatic choice by God of leaders through the gifting of the Holy Spirit, women are included. As time passes, leadership is institutionalized, the secular patriarchal culture filters into the Church, and women are excluded."
Another slightly different angle from other materials I've read was the emphasis on the Father's dependence on the Son as the reciprocal element to the Son's submission to the Father (an argument for a more symmetrical view of the Trinity, which the authors claim is a better picture of the triune God than the asymmetrical, linear, "chain-of-command" view). This was just a slightly different angle than the argument over eternal subordination.
There was also a bit more emphasis in this book than some others I've read on the idea that it is the church corporately (and not just individuals in the church) reflects and represents God. Whereas some churches which believe actual individual humans (such as RCC priests) represent God to people and people to God may feel that males are a better representation, the authors argue that the church as a whole reflects God and that to exclude part of the church in this reflection (i.e. women) would do a disservice to the mission of the church.
There were also some points near the end of the book on leadership theory that might be new to some people. The authors cited Rollo May's categories of power in relationships: exploitative, manipulative, competitive, nutrient, or integrative. This was in a section which argued that the complementarian model of leadership relied too much on hierarchy and dominance and that merely ordaining women into this system without actually changing the system itself would not be an improvement. The authors also made a case that because of the differences in women and men, leadership models would actually improve when women are included. (And I can see that being a bit controversial with some, but the tone of the book is irenic, and the treatment is thorough and honest.)
This is a book I can share with a particular couple in my church. I am still looking for other books that might be better suited to share with some of the other people. I might get a copy of this for my pastor, but I don't really think it is one that will meet him where he is.
I recently read Joann Krupp's Woman: God's Plan Not Man's Tradition. It is written on a lay level that would be good for some people in our church, but some parts of it tend to get speculative at times or have just the author's opinion.
I also read What Paul Really Said About Women by John Temple Bristow. I think the audience for that book would be limited to people who were interested in the linguistics of the words translated from Greek and interested in the influence of Greek philosophy on Western attitudes toward women. I think the title would be off-putting to folks who lean KJO.
I will probably next buy Gilbert Bilezikian's Beyond Sex Roles to see if it is one I can share with the guy who gave the "chain-of-command" testimony.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **5/25/17 6:44 am**

Friendly Face Posts: 346 **5/25/17 7:42 am**

the legacy of this prophet of God must be kept alive!
_________________
Sanctification is subsequent to the new birth

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/1/17 4:00 pm**

I recommend this book to you, Charles.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/1/17 4:07 pm**

Just forward a copy to Charles Page.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/1/17 9:28 pm**

You might want to forward one to Link as well.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **7/17/17 5:56 pm**

...and Aaron.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **7/25/17 1:53 pm**

...and Doyle.