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 The proper use of the law for the NT believer. |
bradfreeman |
What value and benefit does the law have for those who are in Christ?
Does it make us righteous? I don't think even Isa 58 would argue that it does.
Does it bring blessing? Paul made it very clear that, since no one can acquire the Deut 28 blessing by keeping all of it. It has the opposite effect. It brings a curse, not a blessing (See Gal 3:9-13).
| Quote: | | Dave Dorsey: I affirm the third use of the Law as described by the Reformers: the use of the Law as Guide. |
Is it our guide (or Guide with a capital G in your quote)?
It certainly was, for a time, a tutor or a teacher (See Gal 3:24,25).
It spoke of Jesus (Jn 5:39) and foreshadowed His coming (Luke 24:44,45; Col 2:16-18; Heb. 10:1; Heb 10:7).
The law bore witness to new covenant righteous by faith (Rom 3:21,22 and 31).
These purposes "establish" the useful purpose of the law, even for those who haven't discovered the righteousness of God (1 Tim 1:9).
But the believer is has turned to Christ and now experiences righteousness by faith.
What about other purposes?
But when it comes to illuminating minds and hearts, the law has the opposite effect. It veils them (2 Cor 3:14-16).
When it comes to curtailing bad behavior, it has the opposite effect. It increases sin, gives opportunity to sin and is weak and useless to stop sin or make anyone perfect (Rom 5:20; Rom 7:4-9; Rom 8:2; Col 2:20-23; Heb 7:18,19).
So, if the letter is not our guide or teacher, who is?
But now that faith has come, it is "no longer" our tutor.
Jesus said the Spirit, not the letter, would guide us into all truth (John 16:13). "All truth" doesn't leave any truth left for the law to guide us into.
Jesus said the Spirit, not the letter, would "teach you all things" (John 14:26). "All things" doesn't really leave anything for the law to teach us.
John taught that the "anointing" teaches us (1 Jn 2:27).
I see Christ as the fulfillment of the Law in two ways: first, His keeping and fulfilling of the Law for us; and now, His keeping and fulfilling of the Law in us.
If the letter can't curtail bad behavior, who can?
The Spirit is producing the fruit of God's life in us (Gal 5:16-22).
The Spirit is producing freedom from anything that wants to control us (2 Cor 3:18).
I have used the phrase "the opposite effect" multiple times because the law is "contrary" to faith and all that faith produces.
Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.â€
The law doesn't nullify God's promises, it is simply powerless to produce anything that faith produces. If the law can't produce righteousness, blessing or life then what are we to do with it?
One can't ignore Paul's clear direction to "Cast out the bondwoman" in Gal 4:30. Despite our desire to keep Hagar in the household of faith to guide the children, to discipline or feed the children, she really has no place at all in the house. She will have the opposite effect and bring trouble, veil hearts and minds and increase sin.
So what value and benefit does the law have?
So we don't teach the law. We teach Christ. We preach Christ and Him crucified.
If we can find and teach Christ from Old Testament scriptures, we should. Paul did.
Luke 24:44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.†45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures
The scriptures, properly understood, preach everything that Jesus did and all that He is. They preach Him, not us.
If we are teaching us - behavior modification, self-righteousness or self-improvement - from the Old or New Testament, we've missed it.
Jesus didn't come to make us better people, He came and made us new.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/4/18 8:19 am
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Dave Dorsey |
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bradfreeman |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Brad,
To help avoid confusion, let's focus on the concept of moral law, rather than the law of Moses. If it's your position that there is today no moral law which Christians are expected to obey, then your position (without making any comment on its validity or value) is outside the bounds of this thread, and I'll be splitting off posts like that to help this one stay focused on the topic of how to properly handle and teach the Christian obligation to moral law.
If you do hold that Christians are required to obey a moral law and intend to advocate that requirement as being distinct from the Law of Moses (e.g. Matt 22:37-40, 1 John 5:3, etc.) then I think that would be within the bounds of this thread, and would welcome that discussion. |
What do you mean by the moral law being "required" or a "requirement?"
This may answer the question as to its value or benefit.
I do think John clearly defines what he means when he says "His commandments" in 1 John 3:22-24.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/4/18 8:22 am
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bradfreeman |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | What do you mean by the moral law being "required" or a "requirement?" |
Exactly that. That there is a moral law to which God requires obedience from all people, including those in Christ. That, separate from our justification and salvation (that is, neither causative nor retentive of such), God requires repentance and obedience. |
If God "requires obedience" to a moral law and disobedience to it has nothing to do with salvation, what are the consequences from God of disobedience to it?
Avoiding these consequences would certainly be a "value or benefit" to the believer.
Also, you made a statement I really like:
| Quote: | | I see Christ as the fulfillment of the Law in two ways: first, His keeping and fulfilling of the Law for us; and now, His keeping and fulfilling of the Law in us." |
If Christ is keeping and fulfilling the law in us, then it is no longer I who am keeping and fulfilling the law.
Doesn't that truth run contrary to your assertion that God requires us to do something that Christ is doing in us?
Our love (which fulfills the law) then becomes the fruit of His Spirit living His life in us and not a requirement for me to make happen.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/4/18 8:24 am
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bradfreeman |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | Doesn't that truth run contrary to your assertion that God requires us to do something that Christ is doing in us? |
Nope. Phil 2:12-13, 1 Cor 15:10. |
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/4/18 8:24 am
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bradfreeman |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | Doesn't that truth run contrary to your assertion that God requires us to do something that Christ is doing in us? |
Nope. Phil 2:12-13, 1 Cor 15:10. |
I thought we were talking about a requirement to keep a (yet-to-be-clearly-defined) moral law.
1 Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
If it's truly "not I", have I fulfilled God's requirement?
Or did God fulfill God's requirement?
Phil 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Is this Christ living through me? Does He experience "fear and trembling?
As I'm sure you've discovered with other verses on your spiritual journey: "This passage doesn't mean what you've been told it means."
There is something I am to "work out" (my own salvation and fear and trembling) and there is something God is to "work in" me (to will and work for His pleasure). Again, does He require me to do something He is at work doing?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/4/18 8:26 am
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