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The Presumptuous Nature of the Rapture Doctrine

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2109 **6/17/11 6:56 am**

The Presumptuous Nature of the Rapture Doctrine

The Rapture Doctrine makes presumptuous demands on the Scriptures and the Martyred Saints of the past and the Saints suffering persecution in the present. Further, it provides its adherents with a flawed sense of the future while creating a false hope that ignores that which Disciples of Jesus Christ has experienced through the ages.

Presumption Upon Scriptures
The Rapture Doctrine as a “secret” pre-trib event is a presumptuous work first defined in modern Church history by John Nelson Darby (ca. 1830s-1840s) as part of his dispensation scheme. Later, popularized by R.I. Scofield (Scofield Bible) and Clarance Larkin, Darby’s position was embraced at the turn of the 20th century by Fundamentalists, chiefly as a measure to solicit support in their battle against liberalism. Evangelicals inherited this position and it has become the dominant eschatological event other than the actual return of Jesus Christ.

Darby’s proof-text, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 not only resumes upon the immediate text, implying that the Rapture (inclusive with the Resurrection), that clearly announces that the dead will rise and come with Jesus (vv. 14) and those remaining alive until the His coming (vv. 15, parousia) will not precede (via “catching away,” vv. 17). Verses 14 & 15 could not be clearer and to assume otherwise is disingenuous. There is no break in the thought; verses 16 and 17 only give greater detail of the events recorded in verses 14 & 15.

Further, the Rapture Doctrine presumes upon the immediate context that includes 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, which clearly is a part of Paul’s thoughts introduced in the Resurrection-Rapture position he intimates in the previous passage. In the subsequent passage he provides more details regarding the circumstances of the “times and seasons” indicating the coming of the “Day of the Lord” [The Day of God’s Wrath], something the righteous (sons of the light/day)that are prepared shall be saved/delivered: 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ…”

The Rapture Doctrine also presumes upon the Eschatological Schemes in 1st & 2nd Thessalonians (and one of Paul’s earliest works). The Apostle offers no other evidence elsewhere in his epistles that contradicts his position, rather they bolster his position.

Yet, those that have held to the Rapture Doctrine read into other passages evidence to support their position, e.g., Matthew 24, Revelation 4-18, etc. This is circular reasoning: Since, in their minds, the proof text is proven and they read their position into other passages to support their position. Clearly, at least for some, they do not.

A popular argument, other than Matthew 24, is Revelation 4-18. It is argued that since the church previously mentioned in Revelation 2 & 3 is not mentioned in 4-18, the church has been raptured (Some see John’s “calling up” in 4:1 as the rapture, but it is to introduce John to a series of visions that shift from heavenly and earthly scenes). Further, while it is true that the ekklesia is not found in these chapters, there is sufficient evidence that reveal the presence of believers up until Revelation 16.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written to encourage a persecuted church to remain faithful to “the testimony of Jesus.” The Epistles to the Church serve as a prelude with a consistent theme: “to him who overcomes” (which includes Philadelphia – it is “kept” in the manner which a shepherd gathers his flock and under watchful eye). How do believers “overcome” the adversary and persecution: 11 “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.” Usually the latter expression citing death is not used when some cited this passage.

Death as a possibility, along with tribulations and persecutions, is witnessed through the Apocalypse: See 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 12:17; 13:7, 10, 15; 14:13-16; 15:2.

Presumption Upon the Martyrs
Church History is replete with examples of men and women that have been persecuted, tortured, forced to leave their homes, livelihood, family, imprisoned and executed for their “testimony of Jesus.” Little attention paid, however, the present persecution taking place in areas outside Europe and the United States.

While literally thousands of Believers in our day are being sold as slaves, tortured, imprisoned, and executed, the mealy mouth milk-toast Christian in the U.S. is slowly being assimilated into the world-view of materialism and self-aggrandizement. These type of Christians have built their house on the sand and great will be their fall.

In his book, Faith that Endures, Rondald Boyd-MacMillan writes of an encounter he had with members of the underground Chinese Church. Upon other things he gathered from this encounter, he walked away with this admonition from one of those present:

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **6/17/11 8:12 am**

The tribulation period is unique in history.

No other time period can be compared to it.

According to Jesus.
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Sheepdog, True:

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2109 **6/17/11 8:38 am**

Daniel 12:1 (NASB95)
1 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

Matthew 24:21 (NASB95)
21 “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

And if many in a "persecution free zone" can hardly stand because of something someone said or did, or misunderstanding, or power struggle, etc., how will they stand when such times as those described by Daniel and Jesus do come?
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Mark... you're an exercise, buddy...

Friendly Face Posts: 312 **6/17/11 10:08 am**

I'm not even going to argue the premise of a statement that suggests one position is presumptuous and then using presumptuous arguments to establish the alternative. Weak, my brother - weak.

That being said, I am absolutely crushed by the prescience of this quote...

One's view of the rapture is NOT.....

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/17/11 9:01 pm**

..a salvation issue. But I would like to ask you pre-tribbers.......

If you are wrong, then what? Are you prepared to trust Him no matter what? Will you become bitter and join the great falling away? Has the thought even crossed your mind?

It seems I can afford to be wrong. I'm not sure you guys can, especially pampered American Christians.

Strict

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **6/17/11 9:34 pm**

I am amazed at an attitude you take, especially pampered American Christians.

I will admit with no reservations the word pampered it used correctly, because we are. BUT Americans, Christian or not, have always been able to do what it takes to survive, and we will with God's help.

Job in the old testament was pampered, but when the rubber met the road, Job came forth as pure Gold. The steel is here, it has not been tested yet.

I am proud of Christians here on Acts, it seems that we can come to blows in differences, but when one is in trouble, we are there to support in finance or prayer.

I just think you are wrong in your assumption.

But I do love you "Bro!"
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Re: Strict

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/17/11 10:00 pm**

Re: Strict

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **6/17/11 10:55 pm**

Re: One's view of the rapture is NOT.....

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/18/11 6:14 am**

"Tom Sterbens

Mark and Strict .. do you know what presumption is?

Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 **6/18/11 7:14 am**

It's the tendency to presume something as fact when enough reasonable doubt exists to show that it's factuality is suspect.

Your arguments against a pretribulation rapture are just that.

You're going to come to this board, a board predominantly visited by a church movement that stands for such a doctrine, and presume that every believer here who believes in a pretribulation rapture all are dispensationalising clones who swallow without question the teaching.

You categorize everyone who believes it as blind disciples of Scofield and Darby who simply couldn't have arrived at the belief that Jesus Christ will literally remove those who have believed ON Him physically along with those who did so in ages past by their own personal study of the Bible.

You assume that isomeone such as myself who has studied the Bible for 31 years has done so without any regard to "the truth" as you would have us illuminated by.

Neither Hal Lindsey, C.M. Ward, Jerry Jenkins, David Lewis, A.A Ledford, Jack Van Impe or Perry Stone's books are on my nightstand next to the Bible I have read all those years.

The Holy Spirit has been my teacher. I hold to the doctrine because it is rooted in Biblical fact .. not because some guys who created a system of hermeneutics two or three centuries ago that espoused it did.

Now, to me, that is your central premise.

THAT is presumption, my friends. TOWERING presumption in and of itself.

You stick around when the Rapture hits if you want. I'm getting out of here.
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Rafael, YOU'RE being presumptive about me

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/18/11 7:27 am**

FYI, I was part of the pre-trib club for many years. I had a hard time believing that anyone who believed post-trib was even going in the rapture. At best, they were deceived.

I certainly WAS presumptive. I assumed that pre-trib was right because that was the majority position. I knew all the talking points. I led the pre-trib debate team at JSBC. If a post-tribber brought up a good point, I did like most pre-tribbers on this board do and just dismissed it as "ignorance of dispensationalism".

In 1989 that all changed. No, I didn't "have any books on my night stand" by Dr Walter Martin or any other scholar who held to the post-trib view. The Holy Spirit was my teacher and would no longer allow me to twist scripture to what I wanted it to say. I'm thankful that I won't be mis-leading anyone on this issue.

It's easy to make jabs. But I haven't seen you participate in the "grammar dicussion" in the other thread. Not even a comment.

Re: Mark and Strict .. do you know what presumption is?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **6/18/11 9:59 am**