 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Resident Skeptic |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | Then WHO is He praying to?  |
Look. I posted a link to an article from a Trinitarian organization condemning Dake's views as not being orthodox Trinitarian. Are they wrong? Is Dake right?
But as to your question, the human Son of God was praying to his Father and God. Because he was abstaining from his divine prerogatives (though he still possessed them) he communicated with God as humans understand communication. Prior to the incarnation, there was no need for any such communication within God's being. The distinctions that may have been in God from eternity passed were not communicating with each other back then. The Spirit of God had no instructor, according to Isaiah. God was just God, complete within himself, with no need to counsel with anyone. He was already all knowing. In the incarnation, though Jesus the Son of God knew that the Godhead resided bodily in him, he laid aside the divine prerogatives of omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence (though they still resided in him and were at his disposal) and instead limited himself to communication with God as a normal man would. |
Good Post Res.. |
Thank you, though I used the wrong word "passed". I corrected it to "past".
In this discussion, the truth lies somewhere between the extreme "Hyper-Oneness" view (held by a segment, but not a majority of Oneness Pentecostals, constituting a near denial of any distinction between the Father and Son) and the tritheistic views of people like Dake.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/18/17 9:46 am
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
Resident Skeptic |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | And your source for this interpretation is?  |
The Bible.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/18/17 9:48 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Some thoughts... |
Resident Skeptic |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | If you go with Dake's take (hey!), then Hinn's statement about there being NINE in the godhead is not so far of a leap (even though that does not seem to be Dake's view).
At the same time, let me state that this is precisely the reason we shouldn't hold the specific doctrine of the trinity as an utter necessity. Why? Because there so many "legitimate" takes on the trinity that if we posted them all, we wouldn't get everyone to agree which one was right...and then we'd start arguing amongst ourselves. Wait...we already do that.
If a person believes there is one God and that Jesus is His only begotten Son...that's about as close as the scripture allows us to approach before we start fussing. |
And that's all the Apostles seemed to preach in Acts. In the epistles, Paul and John explore a more detailed doctrine of the Godhead and the deity of Christ.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/18/17 9:51 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
What Fuss?
The overwhelming identification of God is "One God eternally existing in three persons"
Wade Horton wrote a great book"Why I believe in the Trinitarian concept of God".
That work is a slam dunk! 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
3/18/17 12:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Sheepdogandy.... |
Aaron Scott |
| My bro, there simply are no slam dunks on the trinity. There are granny shots that we may call slam dunks, but there are just so many scriptures that are contrary to virtually any position we take--trinitarian or oneness--that we do best to settle it for ourselves, but while gently debating the point, allow others to settle it for themselves. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
3/18/17 6:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Sheepdogandy.... |
Resident Skeptic |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | My bro, there simply are no slam dunks on the trinity. There are granny shots that we may call slam dunks, but there are just so many scriptures that are contrary to virtually any position we take--trinitarian or oneness--that we do best to settle it for ourselves, but while gently debating the point, allow others to settle it for themselves. |
Very true. Shock of all shocks, I heard a UPC preacher say almost word for word from the pulpit what you wrote here. You could have heard a pin drop in the place.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/18/17 8:01 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
And Carolyn's simple accurate post went totally ignored.
So I will add this to it:
Why must we declare the right to know and explain something that does not exist anywhere else in the universe, is not bound by the laws of nature of which we are bound, as if it was part OF nature and under the laws we are under?
Right now, it does not appear clearly to us WHAT we shall be, but when He appears we will know because we will be like him. At this point, we are supposed to be trying to see things the way he does, and feel things the way he feels.
This we believe:
In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
We don't explain it. We accept it. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
3/19/17 6:25 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Resident Skeptic |
| Bro Bob wrote: | And Carolyn's simple accurate post went totally ignored.
So I will add this to it:
Why must we declare the right to know and explain something that does not exist anywhere else in the universe, is not bound by the laws of nature of which we are bound, as if it was part OF nature and under the laws we are under?
Right now, it does not appear clearly to us WHAT we shall be, but when He appears we will know because we will be like him. At this point, we are supposed to be trying to see things the way he does, and feel things the way he feels.
This we believe:
In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
We don't explain it. We accept it. |
That is fine, but some don't "accept" the version of this doctrine that others accept. That is what I am trying to point out in this thread. Is Dake truly accepting the doctrine of the Trinity, or his he a tritheist? Are Oneness Pentecostals accepting the doctrine of the trinity , though they animatedly rebuke and reject the use of the term "three persons" as it relates to the distinctions within God's being?
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/19/17 7:37 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
| Quote: | | That is fine, but some don't "accept" the version of this doctrine that others accept. |
And I am ok with that as long as they are seeking to know truth, and understand their human limitations.
The CoG doesn't explain it. Just like they don't take a stand on pre-mid-or post trib catching away. They simply say we agree on a pre-millenial return of Christ. This is one of many things I truly appreciate about those who went before us.
But when someone begins to present their view by attacking the person who soundly presents a different view (as in the linked article) then my spirit immediately sees an attempt by a writer to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion rather than seek for understanding.
Would the writers of that article say that all of King David's writings should be made void by the Bathsheba chapter of his life? Not to his face they wouldn't.
The evil that men do lives long after them... (somebody once said). The good is oft interred with their bones.
If one of those bombs goes off above us that wipes out our electrical power, and I have no internet, I will use my Dake Bible for study, knowing that I won't agree with everything he says, but with full understanding that he knew a heck of a lot more than I did, and studied much more diligently to produce such a work in the days before computers.
I won't be reading anything from such persons as those who wrote the piece in that link. Their method is untrustworthy, regardless of conclusions reached. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
3/19/17 8:13 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Resident Skeptic |
| Bro Bob wrote: | | Quote: | | That is fine, but some don't "accept" the version of this doctrine that others accept. |
And I am ok with that as long as they are seeking to know truth, and understand their human limitations.
The CoG doesn't explain it. Just like they don't take a stand on pre-mid-or post trib catching away. They simply say we agree on a pre-millenial return of Christ. This is one of many things I truly appreciate about those who went before us.
But when someone begins to present their view by attacking the person who soundly presents a different view (as in the linked article) then my spirit immediately sees an attempt by a writer to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion rather than seek for understanding.
Would the writers of that article say that all of King David's writings should be made void by the Bathsheba chapter of his life? Not to his face they wouldn't.
The evil that men do lives long after them... (somebody once said). The good is oft interred with their bones.
If one of those bombs goes off above us that wipes out our electrical power, and I have no internet, I will use my Dake Bible for study, knowing that I won't agree with everything he says, but with full understanding that he knew a heck of a lot more than I did, and studied much more diligently to produce such a work in the days before computers.
I won't be reading anything from such persons as those who wrote the piece in that link. Their method is untrustworthy, regardless of conclusions reached. |
Yes, I also thought Dake's personal failings were irrelevant to the topic. Excellent point. But that is why I only copied and pasted the part dealing directly with his view on the Godhead.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/19/17 12:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
| Resident, I feel very good about our discussion on this matter. Thank you. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
3/19/17 1:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Resident Skeptic |
| Bro Bob wrote: | | Resident, I feel very good about our discussion on this matter. Thank you. |
Thank you. Forgive me for not posting a disclaimer to begin with about the article itself.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/19/17 2:38 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
My posts are often ignored, Bro Bob. I try not to take it personally. 
I don't remember if I've shared this here before or not. This topic has been debated SO many times.
A friend of mine well versed in the Word went thru a period where she was all about the Oneness doctrine. We debated it at great length, with neither of us budging an inch.
Sometime later she returned to fellowship with us and told us this is what the Lord had spoken to her..."I can be three or I can be one. That's up to Me." And the implication was...stop worrying about it and leave it alone.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
3/19/17 6:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | My posts are often ignored, Bro Bob. I try not to take it personally.
I don't remember if I've shared this here before or not. This topic has been debated SO many times.
A friend of mine well versed in the Word went thru a period where she was all about the Oneness doctrine. We debated it at great length, with neither of us budging an inch.
Sometime later she returned to fellowship with us and told us this is what the Lord had spoken to her..."I can be three or I can be one. That's up to Me." And the implication was...stop worrying about it and leave it alone. |
But notice that the party addressing her referred to himself as "I" and "me". 
BTW, your posts are always kind and season these "debates" with class and grace. Sometimes us men lack in both.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
3/19/17 7:24 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | My posts are often ignored, Bro Bob. I try not to take it personally.
I don't remember if I've shared this here before or not. This topic has been debated SO many times.
A friend of mine well versed in the Word went thru a period where she was all about the Oneness doctrine. We debated it at great length, with neither of us budging an inch.
Sometime later she returned to fellowship with us and told us this is what the Lord had spoken to her..."I can be three or I can be one. That's up to Me." And the implication was...stop worrying about it and leave it alone. |
But notice that the party addressing her referred to himself as "I" and "me".
BTW, your posts are always kind and season these "debates" with class and grace. Sometimes us men lack in both. |
Point taken, RS.
Thanks. Sometimes y'all try my patience. LOL
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
3/19/17 7:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
