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 Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
caseyleejones |
Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
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12/23/13 3:49 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
Link |
| caseyleejones wrote: | Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
Doing it in an area far from other people who could get hit in the eye with a flag pole seems to make sense. I went to a church that had banner waving once. I don't know that they had rules, but people tended to do that in the back. There are churches who have part of the 'praise team' or whatever they call it up front waving flags or banners as part of 'the show.'
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12/23/13 5:11 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
roughridercog |
| Link wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: | Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
Doing it in an area far from other people who could get hit in the eye with a flag pole seems to make sense. I went to a church that had banner waving once. I don't know that they had rules, but people tended to do that in the back. There are churches who have part of the 'praise team' or whatever they call it up front waving flags or banners as part of 'the show.' |
If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."
But if you want to do it, go ahead.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
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12/23/13 6:53 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
THE LOVE OF GOD |
If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."
My opinion too..
Last edited by THE LOVE OF GOD on 12/24/13 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 387
12/23/13 7:42 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
bonnie knox |
| caseyleejones wrote: | Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
At our church, the flag wavers are in the four corners of the sanctuary (not on stage). There is an organized team, so the participants follow the protocol set by the team leader who is under the direction of the pastor. |
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12/23/13 7:48 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
Cojak |
| roughridercog wrote: |
If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."
But if you want to do it, go ahead. |
I agree with you here.
I think if the practice has been going on for a long time, designating a place might be 'counter productive', unless you have a majority wanting a change. I think if I were a new pastor just moving in, I would try my best to find a way to discourage it OVER TIME, If I had to put the person (s)on the praise team. 
In visiting a couple churches in Florida some have some real entertainers, fancy acrobatics, and some VERY WILD. But to me it comes across as a show. But that is my opinion, I am in and out and my opinion should not make a difference. That is local church business.
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12/23/13 7:51 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
Ernie Long |
[quote="THE LOVE OF GOD"] | roughridercog wrote: | | Link wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: | Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
Doing it in an area far from other people who could get hit in the eye with a flag pole seems to make sense. I went to a church that had banner waving once. I don't know that they had rules, but people tended to do that in the back. There are churches who have part of the 'praise team' or whatever they call it up front waving flags or banners as part of 'the show.' |
[b]If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."[/b]
My opinion too.. |
Yeah, that's what happened here; 2 Samuel 6:14-16 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
Honestly, why do we judge everything in the church to OUR standards? I have a three yr old in my church that jumps around and runs in the altar area every service. His grandparents brings him. His mom was in church yesterday for the first time this year. When I walked onto the platform, this kid screamed out with excitement, "Church is starting" his mom's mouth dropped open and the look on her face was priceless. She didn't respond to the altar call, but she listen to the message as her son sat in her lap and listened as well.
Some may say I need to sit this child down, he doesn't understand what he is doing and I say wait till this kid grows up and remembers that he had a pastor in his life that didn't make him sit down because some in the church may see it as a disruption.
Are there some who do things in church for the attraction it brings them? Sure, but they are getting their reward. I just believe that their are some that want to worship the Lord freely, but don't because they have heard how others have talked about those who don't worship like we do.  |
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Posts: 1050
12/23/13 8:10 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
roughridercog |
[quote="Ernie Long"] | THE LOVE OF GOD wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | | Link wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: | Do you have a designated area in your church for people to do these? Do they just do it up front? Is there a designated area in back?
Would having a designated area in back be wrong? |
Doing it in an area far from other people who could get hit in the eye with a flag pole seems to make sense. I went to a church that had banner waving once. I don't know that they had rules, but people tended to do that in the back. There are churches who have part of the 'praise team' or whatever they call it up front waving flags or banners as part of 'the show.' |
[b]If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."[/b]
My opinion too.. |
Yeah, that's what happened here; 2 Samuel 6:14-16 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.
Honestly, why do we judge everything in the church to OUR standards? I have a three yr old in my church that jumps around and runs in the altar area every service. His grandparents brings him. His mom was in church yesterday for the first time this year. When I walked onto the platform, this kid screamed out with excitement, "Church is starting" his mom's mouth dropped open and the look on her face was priceless. She didn't respond to the altar call, but she listen to the message as her son sat in her lap and listened as well.
Some may say I need to sit this child down, he doesn't understand what he is doing and I say wait till this kid grows up and remembers that he had a pastor in his life that didn't make him sit down because some in the church may see it as a disruption.
Are there some who do things in church for the attraction it brings them? Sure, but they are getting their reward. I just believe that their are some that want to worship the Lord freely, but don't because they have heard how others have talked about those who don't worship like we do. |
It just seemed if an opinion was asked for bad I gave it. If you want to have it go ahead.
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12/23/13 8:26 pm
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Randy Johnson |
Banner waving comes from the influence of the Charismatic Movement in Pentecostal churches.
Why We Wave Flags
Flags, Banners & Streamers
The Lord is my banner. Exodus 17:15
His banner over me is love. Song of Songs 2:4
Throughout scripture, God calls His people to raise a banner (standard, flag, ensign) in His name. He does this for several reasons:
Flags gather the people:
The Israelites are to camp around the Tent of Meeting some distance from it, each man under his standard with the banners of his family. Numbers 2:2
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth. Isaiah 11:12
Flags are a signal or form of communication:
In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. Isaiah 11:10
Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep
nothing back. Jeremiah 50:2
Flags are a signal for battle:
Lift up a banner in the land! Blow the trumpet among the nations! Prepare the nations for battle against her. Jeremiah 51:27
How long must I see the battle standard and hear the sound of the trumpet? Jeremiah 4:21
Flags proclaim victory:
We will shout for joy when you are victorious and will lift up our banners in the name of
our God. Psalm 20:5
The waving of flags is also symbolic of the wave offerings that were given to the Lord in the Old Testament (Leviticus) and the palms that were waved before Christ in the New Testament. The colors themselves are also symbolic of many things, just as the rainbow of colors is a symbol of God’s promise to Noah. As we wave different colors before the Lord, we are standing in the promises and proclaiming them over our lives and over the body of believers.
Silver: redemption, faith, truth, strength
Genesis 20:16; Exodus 25:3: Leviticus 5:15; Numbers 18:15-16; Psalm 12:6, 66:10; Proverbs 25:4;
Hosea 3:2; Matthew 26:15, 27:3, 9
Gold: divinity, glory of God
Exodus 37, 40:34-35; Psalm 21:3; Hebrew 9:4-5; Revelation 1:13-14
Bronze/brass: judgment, strength, perseverance (from refiner’s fire), feet of God
Exodus 27, 30:17-21; Numbers 21:9; Ezekiel 40:3; Daniel 10:5-6; Micah 4:13; Revelation 1:15, 2:18
Red: blood covering, blood of the Lamb, atonement, warfare, celebration, love of God
Exodus 26:14; Leviticus 17:11; Isaiah 1:18; Nahum 2:2-4; Hebrews 9:12-14
Orange: praise, fire of God
Hebrews 12:29
Yellow/amber: presence of God’s glory; celebration, joy
Ezekial 1:4, 8:2; Isaiah 51:11, 61:3; Hebrews 1:9
Green: healing, new beginnings, new life, everlasting life, hope, restoration
Psalm 23:2-3, 92:12-14; Proverbs 11:28; Jeremiah 17:8; Joel 2:22; Hosea 14:8; Revelation 22:2
Blue: grace, mercy, Holy Spirit, remembrance of God’s commands, heaven, living water, River of Life
Exodus 24:10; Numbers 15:38-40; Ezekial 47:1-12; Revelation 22:1-2
Purple: royalty, kingship, honor, authority of believers
Judges 8:26; Esther 8:15; Mark 15:17-18
Plum: richness, abundance, infilling of the Holy Spirit
Hosea 2:22; Joel 2:24
Violet: Shekinah glory, purity, invisible, supernatural
Exodus 35:6; Ezekial 1:4, 8:2; Psalm 68:13; Daniel 12:10; Ephesians 2:7
Pink: passion for Jesus, compassion, joy
1 Samuel 18:6; Nehemiah 12:43
Iridescent: overcoming
Revelation 21:11-19
White: purity, innocence, holiness, light
Psalm 51:7; Isaiah 1:18; Matthew 17:2; Revelation 3:4, 7:9
Black: righteous judgment, sin and death
Exodus 10:15; Deuteronomy 4:11-13; Psalm 23:4; Is 1:18; Lamentations 4:8, 5:10; Ephesians 5:11;
Revelation 6:5
Brown/gray: repentance, humility
Esther 4:3; Daniel 9:3-5
There are many other scriptures related to banners in the Bible. For further study, see: Numbers 1:52; chpt. 2 & 10; Psalms 74:4; Song of Songs 6:4; Isaiah 5:26; 11:10-12; 13:2; 18:3; 30:17; 31:9; 49:22; 59:19; 62:10; Jeremiah 4:6, 21; 50:2; 51:12, 27; Zechariah 9:16.
___________________________________________________________________________
By Jody Thomae, Creative Arts Director, 5 Stones Community Church, Ashland, OH (2006)
http://www.5stones.org/ministries/dance-ministry/resources/why-we-wave-flags
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Randy Johnson, Pastor
Ickesburg Church of God
85 Tuscarora Path
Ickesburg, Pennsylvania |
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Posts: 5431
12/23/13 8:36 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Flags and choreographed dancing were definitely not my tradition, either (classical Pentecostal), but for some reason I never felt that flag-waving was necessarily a "look at me" thing. Definitely not any more so than your more typical classical Pentecostal expressions of worship. |
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12/23/13 10:15 pm
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SCFIRE |
@ Randy Johnson - great information.
Drama's, dancing, flagging. All of this doesn't happen every service, but we have it quite often.
It enhances worship.
We have many receiving Christ during worship as well as during the invitation. The pulling of the Holy Spirit is strong as God is adored & worshiped.
I just flat out love it. & God does too.
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12/23/13 10:29 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
My daughter enjoys worshiping in this way. She has used flags more in dramas, but she usually uses scarves. She also enjoys dancing before the Lord. She was a theater ed major in college but has no training in dancing before the Lord. It is just what she loves to do to express her love for the Lord. She doesn't do this for "show" and doesn't care if she's in the front or the back. She doesn't do this to draw attention to herself. It is just her way to worship. She gets a lot of positive comments from people who enjoy watching her worship. Children often watch with fascination as she worships the Lord.
She uses sign language (some ASL; some movements are her own creation) as she worships. She was involved in a sign choir when she was about 12, and it was obvious this was her thing from the start. While other children made the signs and repeated movements, you could see what she was doing was coming from the heart.
I'm sure some use flags & banners for "show" but don't lump them all in the same boat. There are some people who truly enjoy worshiping the Lord in this way and don't care who (if anyone) is watching. It is between that person and the Lord. And if it's OK with Him, who are we to judge?
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12/23/13 11:28 pm
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| Re: Dancing and flag waving in church.....input please... |
Allen King |
| roughridercog wrote: | If you have it, that's fine. But quite honestly it's not my tradition. In my head it's just a big show of people saying "look at me."
But if you want to do it, go ahead. |
Of course, nothing like that has ever happened in a classic Pentecostal worship service. 
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Don't blame me. I voted for real change. |
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12/23/13 11:30 pm
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| Flag wavin in church? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
Is this the kinda stuff ya talkin bout?
or this?
 |
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Posts: 15570
12/24/13 12:03 am
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Cojak |
I always get mixed signals on a subject like this. When I was young if you had thought of waving a flag in service someone would have said you must have a COGOP background. I have heard it preached against. WE ARE A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH, folks were accused of bringing OT material into the New Testament times. Are we going to start stoning people next? Yeah folks jumped from a flags to stoning, just like folk jump from a glass of wine to Drunk. Like going from GAy marriage to marrying a dog.
I stated that the flags are not my cup of tea. I do not rail against it nor condemn anyone to Hell for doing it. It is hard to get away from the sights and sounds of your youth, no matter how old you get. But so many mixed signals are sent, what is still good, accepted, commanded, expected, permissive from the Old Testament? 
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12/24/13 12:41 am
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| Re: Flag wavin in church? (pic) |
bonnie knox |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Is this the kinda stuff ya talkin bout?
or this?
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____________________________________________________________
Neither one! We're talking about flagmen (and flagwomen) that are gonna be needed to control the traffic of all the folks that we are prayin' in from the north and the south and the east and the west!
Calling forth those things that be not as though they were!!
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12/24/13 1:18 am
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| We have a special place for flag wavers... |
COGLayman |
During our worship service we have a special place for anyone who wants to be a flag waver. It's in the basement in one of the back classrooms.  |
Friendly Face
Posts: 256
12/24/13 10:17 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Cojak wrote: | I always get mixed signals on a subject like this. When I was young if you had thought of waving a flag in service someone would have said you must have a COGOP background. I have heard it preached against. WE ARE A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH, folks were accused of bringing OT material into the New Testament times. Are we going to start stoning people next? Yeah folks jumped from a flags to stoning, just like folk jump from a glass of wine to Drunk. Like going from GAy marriage to marrying a dog.
I stated that the flags are not my cup of tea. I do not rail against it nor condemn anyone to Hell for doing it. It is hard to get away from the sights and sounds of your youth, no matter how old you get. But so many mixed signals are sent, what is still good, accepted, commanded, expected, permissive from the Old Testament? |
We may be a NT church, but we also believe in the whole Bible, rightly divided. Someone please tell me, how WORSHIPING THE LORD can be wrong?
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12/24/13 10:28 am
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Cojak |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | But so many mixed signals are sent, what is still good, accepted, commanded, expected, permissive from the Old Testament? |
We may be a NT church, but we also believe in the whole Bible, rightly divided. Someone please tell me, how WORSHIPING THE LORD can be wrong?[/quote]
Love you lady and of course you raise a good question. No argument there.
My statement (bold) is something you will have to wait for old age to 'maybe understand'. But without the background it still might not work. 
But I do always enjoy reading your comments, sweet lady. 
BTW.. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOUR AND YOURS
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12/24/13 10:43 am
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c6thplayer1 |
We had a flag waving service at a church that I once attended. they waved flags from different nations even though no member was from a different nation. I dont know if it was for a show or a gimmick to get other ethnics in the church.
I would not have waved flags from other nations myself. Probably because I was ashamed of the name of the church. All Nations. It just sounds like some of the fly by night churches that are here today and gone tomorrow. Guess I'm just a traditionalist. |
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12/24/13 10:54 am
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