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 Coward of Broward County |
Nature Boy Florida |
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UncleJD |
| What a pitiful excuse for a man. A good man with a gun was nowhere to be found. Somehow a sheep took a job as a shepherd. Just a hireling. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
2/23/18 9:33 am
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| There's some great names ... |
Mat |
There's some great names in the article, but a little confusing:
Scot Peterson - is that the same name of police officer who killed his wives?
Tim Burton - like the movie producer?
To top if off, the shooter's last name is "Cruz". Any relationship to the senator from FL? I know he was adopted (along with his brother), but I would like to know more about his adopted parents and his birth parents.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/23/18 9:39 am
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| Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Mat |
| UncleJD wrote: | | What a pitiful excuse for a man. A good man with a gun was nowhere to be found. Somehow a sheep took a job as a shepherd. Just a hireling. |
Shoots holes in the theory that a good man with a good and stop a bad man with a gun.
Maybe its time to reestablish mental health institutions. I remember passing Moccasin Bend in Chattanooga as a kid. I was fearful of that place and never wanted to end up there, or meet anyone from there (especially one with a gun).
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/23/18 9:44 am
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
UncleJD |
| Mat wrote: |
Shoots holes in the theory that a good man with a good and stop a bad man with a gun. |
Are you are claiming this was a good man with a gun? He wasn't. A sheep posing as a shepherd is not a good man. Try again. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
2/23/18 10:11 am
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Cojak |
A person taking a 'cushy' job, but not ready to answer THAT call, back up his oath that could have saved at least a few lives. BUT that is all hind sight now, my brother's standard quote, "One never knows does one?"
I think how often and how lightly in my life I have sang, thought and said, "I will die for my Lord if need be. Then I see (REALITY) those Egyptian Christians lined up by the Mediterranean allowing their throat to be cut before they would denounce HIM. Then I realize how deep my oath/commitment must be to 'STAND IN THE GAP'!"
YOU TOOK THE JOB, BE THERE WHEN THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD!
Truth is, most people who take the oath, will back it up!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
2/23/18 11:46 am
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Mat |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Mat wrote: |
Shoots holes in the theory that a good man with a good and stop a bad man with a gun. |
Are you are claiming this was a good man with a gun? He wasn't. A sheep posing as a shepherd is not a good man. Try again. |
Running to a gun fight is never easy, even for the best trained - which I doubt he was/is/or ever will be now.
I can't see teachers and educators in this role either. They did not go to college to become armed guards. If there were some who would carry a weapon, and trained to engage a shooter, and have the grit to do so (that's a big if), chances are they would be at the wrong end of the campus if the shooting started.
I recall the church in Texas had an active shooter plan and had members who carried, including the pastor. They were absent the day of the shooting.
If we were as bold and brave as we are (including me) in real life as we are on the internet, things might be different.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
2/23/18 12:16 pm
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Cojak |
| Mat wrote: | ...
Running to a gun fight is never easy, even for the best trained - which I doubt he was/is/or ever will be now.
I can't see teachers and educators in this role either. T...
Mat |
I have never ran to a gunfight. But I have taken an oath before, and took it very serious. I think most military and law officers do.
I do not see teachers as guards or protectors by order but I do think a teacher should be allowed to be a 'concealed carry person', if they so desire and feel the need. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
2/23/18 12:38 pm
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Tom Sterbens |
| Mat wrote: |
Running to a gun fight is never easy, even for the best trained - which I doubt he was/is/or ever will be now.
..........................
If we were as bold and brave as we are (including me) in real life as we are on the internet, things might be different.
Mat |
I think the guy was clearly afraid...
I feel badly for the shadow he will live under until he dies...I can't imagine the weight of that guilt.
I certainly feel far, far worse for the people who dies and the families who remain...
I was a LEO for four years when I was young.
I have been in multiple situations where threat of life was a reality.
One particular situation where I was ambushed by men with rifles - I ran toward them returning fire. I don't know of anyone I worked with who would not have done the same.
My point in responding to the above statement is that I think the majority of people on here would have responded to intervene in some manner - but then, I tend to think the best of people.
We will never know who might have lived if, nothing else, he would have distracted the gunman by offering some sort of resistance.
This thing is just a tragedy at every level... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4508
2/23/18 3:20 pm
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Cojak |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: |
I think the guy was clearly afraid...
I feel badly for the shadow he will live under until he dies...I can't imagine the weight of that guilt.
..... |
YES, that will follow him for the rest of his life. Life's choices are not always easy! 
And of course I feel for the victims he was paid to protect. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
2/23/18 4:28 pm
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| I hope I would do the right thing...but we never know until we're there.... |
Aaron Scott |
I doubt a single law officer imagines that he will freeze up or otherwise not do what needs to be done. But just a few weeks back, I saw a video of a law enforcement officer who was under such stress in what seemed to be a not-too-high-pressure of a situation, and he looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown.
Like most of us, I cannot imagine how that man will be able to even face those who would typically be most supportive of him--wife, children, etc. It's something he--and they--will likely never live down. (I am assuming we are really getting the true story about his role, etc.).
But when we get right down to it, I wonder if there's more guilt to go around? I have a feeling that the sheriff may eventually be taken down, too. Why? Because (assuming he was in charge when it happened), he had men that did not seem to respond appropriately to the threat that the killer had presented before he ever headed for the school. When people are hurt, they often will lash out at anyone who they think played the smallest role.
I agree with Cojak: Most teachers will be utterly inadequate to the task, I would think, of having to perform like a SWAT officer or military person. HOWEVER, in my role as a teacher, I found that a number of the teachers were often retired military types, or had even been in Iraq, etc. So THOSE guys, if they demonstrate that they have their head on straight, might be quite useful.
The key, I think, is NOT just how they will respond, but that if a killer knows that there are multiple armed men/women in the school, it might give them pause (although, the fact that there was an armed officer at Parkland did not seem to slow the killer).
All I can hope is that all of us will acquit ourselves well in such high-stress situations. A gun can make you feel like a bad boy...if the other guy doesn't have a gun, too. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
2/23/18 4:47 pm
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| Re: There's some great names ... |
chestnut ridge |
| Mat wrote: |
To top if off, the shooter's last name is "Cruz". Any relationship to the senator from FL?
Mat |
You mean Texas? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1722
2/23/18 5:11 pm
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| Re: Shoots holes in the theory ... |
Link |
| Mat wrote: |
If we were as bold and brave as we are (including me) in real life as we are on the internet, things might be different.
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If you get shot on the Internet, you can rejuvinate and have three lives left.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/26/18 1:10 am
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Dave Dorsey |
Teachers and educators did not go to college to be armed guards, or to stop armed assailants. They might be unwilling to attempt that task, and we should not require them to do so.
But two teachers at the high school shielded their students with their bodies in order to protect them. Not every teacher is going to be willing or capable of engaging an armed shooter. But some teachers will be willing and capable to do that and more, and it seems to me that if they are, it makes sense to equip them with the means to do so. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/26/18 8:36 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Agreed. Don't require anybody. But those that want to be armed - should be allowed to be armed - concealed of course. At least when a gunman comes charging down the hall and the teacher wants to protect his students - he has something to slow the shooter down with.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
2/26/18 8:56 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| There's also the matter of hardening the target. Maybe every single teacher who carries will act like the Coward of Broward County. Highly doubtful, but let's say that's the case. So what? A potential shooter doesn't know that. Just having them armed is a huge deterrent and hardens the school immensely. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/26/18 9:35 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | There's also the matter of hardening the target. Maybe every single teacher who carries will act like the Coward of Broward County. Highly doubtful, but let's say that's the case. So what? A potential shooter doesn't know that. Just having them armed is a huge deterrent and hardens the school immensely. |
Agreed.
Whatever happened to my day - where if a dude had a beef - and pulled a knife - everyone around would tell him to fight like a man - and he would drop the knife and fight with fists. And several dudes had 22 rifles in their truck gun rack - a no one even remotely considered going to get it - no matter how bad his butt was kicked.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
2/26/18 10:09 am
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UncleJD |
Did I miss where someone said teachers should be "required" to be armed? I know Trump said there should be bonus incentives for them to do so and that those who did should be well trained, but I didn't see or hear where he said "mandatory" or "required".
We have 2 local high schools nearby. One is large and liberal, one is smaller and has signs posted that faculty is armed and ready. Which one do you think a murderer bent on killing as many kids as possible would choose? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
2/26/18 11:23 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Did I miss where someone said teachers should be "required" to be armed? |
It's a red herring in the argument against arming teachers. The idea can be made to appear less reasonable if opponents can portray advocates as wanting to force teachers to be armed, or can draw attention to teachers who may be uncomfortable with being armed. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/26/18 12:05 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I personally am very much in favor of allowing teachers to volunteer to carry concealed and be specially trained in security. I think it also is a good idea to consider posting armed guards in schools. Metal detectors would be a good idea too, as unbelievable as that sounds to my middle-aged ears. There really is nothing more precious than the lives of children.
Also, as much as I realize how difficult recruitment and retaining of law enforcement officers can be, there just has to be some way to know and make sure these guys or gals in law enforcement actually have the backbone necessary to do their job. If they aren’t willing to put their lives on the line to protect KIDS, they have absolutely no business wearing the badge! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
2/26/18 12:17 pm
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