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 Great churches not deeded to the COG? |
CentFLPstr |
| Has anyone heard that Mt. Paran North is not deeded to the Cog? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 193
6/25/12 2:18 pm
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Change Agent |
CentFLPstr wrote:
"Has anyone heard that Mt. Paran North is not deeded to the Cog?"
I do know of one large church that leases their building. It was a planned thing to keep it from being deeded to the COG. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
6/25/12 3:45 pm
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Clint Wills |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | Not to get off track, but a group can own a building and rent it to a church just like Travis rented a theater. What keeps that from happening?
What would happen if a church asked for the deed. The COG refused to give them the deed. Then, the church abandoned the property and rented a place owned by a group of members? What stops that?
It is logical to think that if a group went that far, they wouldn't stay in the COG, but just for the sake of argument, I am asking. |
Here's an additional thought: what would the COG want with an empty building anyway? This is NOT based on anything at all, so don't spread any rumors!! If my dad decided to pull out of the COG he would pull 100% of the people in the church. There isn't anyone here that is loyal to the COG, and every single person in the church has come during my dad's pastorate. If he were to tell the COG, "we are leaving, but we'd like to buy the building from you", why wouldn't they sell? If they didn't they'd end up paying the mortgage on it until it sold. If they put a new pastor in there it would be a plant and that church likely wouldn't be able to make the payment for a while either.
I think this is a fairly plausible way to do it - if someone were looking to get out. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5161
6/25/12 5:38 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Clint Wills wrote: | | Eddie Robbins wrote: | Not to get off track, but a group can own a building and rent it to a church just like Travis rented a theater. What keeps that from happening?
What would happen if a church asked for the deed. The COG refused to give them the deed. Then, the church abandoned the property and rented a place owned by a group of members? What stops that?
It is logical to think that if a group went that far, they wouldn't stay in the COG, but just for the sake of argument, I am asking. |
Here's an additional thought: what would the COG want with an empty building anyway? This is NOT based on anything at all, so don't spread any rumors!! If my dad decided to pull out of the COG he would pull 100% of the people in the church. There isn't anyone here that is loyal to the COG, and every single person in the church has come during my dad's pastorate. If he were to tell the COG, "we are leaving, but we'd like to buy the building from you", why wouldn't they sell? If they didn't they'd end up paying the mortgage on it until it sold. If they put a new pastor in there it would be a plant and that church likely wouldn't be able to make the payment for a while either.
I think this is a fairly plausible way to do it - if someone were looking to get out. |
It is - and has happened a lot. You got the HQ over the barrel when you do that.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
6/25/12 5:53 pm
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| I thought it had been answered.. |
Clyde Walker |
| Quote: | | What if it has "never" been deeded to GH. It has always been deeded to the local. What @ that? |
If the local church property has always been deeded to the local church, then legally it belongs to that local congregation. If that congregation decided to leave the denomination they could do so and take their property with them.
If the State or General officials learn that it is not deeded to the general church they could require that pastor to get the church to re-deed it. If the pastor refused he would be disciplined. If it was a large church that paid a lot of tithes into the respective headquarters I imagine they would let it alone.
I hope that answers your question. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 117
6/25/12 6:21 pm
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| Re: TOT |
ScottKing |
| G. Scott Hager wrote: | Will the associate churches be required to give the tithe of tithe?
Also, can existing COG congregations be able to pull their deeds and become Associate churches? |
As it reads now, and this was the issue I had with this measure in 2010, they would not have to pay TOT. The measure simply states financial "accountability." Accountability carried the idea of the church has to submit a yearly financial statement, have a working budget, etc. not pay ToT. The word here should be "responsibility."
I asked about existing churches being able to pull their deeds and the answer was NO.
My issue this time is simply they must be required to pay TOT. They should allow existing churches to become associate churches if wanted. And, if the pastor of the Associate church has credentials in the CoG we will have to visit the issue of being the pastor of a non-CoG also so as to clear that up. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 174
6/26/12 12:15 pm
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| If affiliate churches |
COG Blessed |
are not required to pay TOT, then what is the purpose for the COG?
If TOT is not required, will they be eligible to be officials, GC members, etc. and dictate what the rest of us are required to do? I have not fully understood what will be required of them.
Another scenerio...... if (not expected ever) but if the COG were to default on major loans and bankrupt, would all the church owned churches be lost too? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/27/12 2:53 pm
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| If affiliate churches |
COG Blessed |
are not required to pay TOT, then what is the purpose for the COG?
If TOT is not required, will they be eligible to be officials, GC members, etc. and dictate what the rest of us are required to do? I have not fully understood what will be required of them.
Another scenerio...... if (not expected ever) but if the COG were to default on major loans and bankrupt, would all the church owned churches be lost too? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/27/12 2:55 pm
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| Re: If affiliate churches |
Allen King |
| COG Blessed wrote: | | Another scenerio...... if (not expected ever) but if the COG were to default on major loans and bankrupt, would all the church owned churches be lost too? |
They sure would. The denom owns the property, and therefore, all properties are available to satisfy debt.
_________________
Don't blame me. I voted for real change. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1302
6/27/12 3:14 pm
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| Sorry, didn't mean to enter that post twice |
COG Blessed |
| but that came to mind due to the economy situations now but had never actually thought about it before. WOW!!!!!!!!! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/27/12 3:33 pm
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| Re: Sorry, didn't mean to enter that post twice |
Allen King |
| COG Blessed wrote: | | but that came to mind due to the economy situations now but had never actually thought about it before. WOW!!!!!!!!! |
I've also wondered about what would happen when (not if) churches have to start paying property taxes. Since Cleveland holds the deed, would they not be responsible to pay the taxes?
_________________
Don't blame me. I voted for real change. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1302
6/27/12 3:37 pm
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| My view on property taxes |
COG Blessed |
| is that the local church will pay..... who paid for that church, who pays all the bills for that church.( the ownership has never paid for anything where I attend ) and that's ok. God has blessed us and we are thankful but our church property is Cleveland owned. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/27/12 5:18 pm
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| Affiliate churches? what about affiliate member |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| If we can have affiliate churches, then can we have affiliate members? Members who pay their tithe into general funds since marking an "envelope" isn't mentioned in scripture? lolol Sorry, absolutely couldn't resist. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
6/30/12 2:57 pm
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| Affiliate members |
COG Blessed |
is what affiliate churches will have if it is truthfully explained to them how the system works. Why would a congregation with their own property and their own money want to suddenly send 13% of their funds somewhere they know nothing about, will never be visited by the AB must less a higher official? Most AB's know nothing about the churches in their state.
How many COG members know how our system works...... it is NEVER explained openly to the congregations. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/30/12 4:06 pm
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| Re: Affiliate members |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| COG Blessed wrote: | is what affiliate churches will have if it is truthfully explained to them how the system works. Why would a congregation with their own property and their own money want to suddenly send 13% of their funds somewhere they know nothing about, will never be visited by the AB must less a higher official? Most AB's know nothing about the churches in their state.
How many COG members know how our system works...... it is NEVER explained openly to the congregations. |
COG Blessed.... I was having some fun with the thought..... but what about COG churches themselves.... can they now have affiliate members? People who want to be members but members who want their money to stay in house? Just a thought as this Affiliate Church thing is tossed about.... again... just having some fun with the idea. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
6/30/12 4:39 pm
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| Re: Affiliate members |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| Major B. Trammell wrote: | | Tracy S Hamilton wrote: | | can they now have affiliate members? People who want to be members but members who want their money to stay in house? |
Church of God members can already do that... and they do.
I have a few members (not many, but a few) in my church who pay their tithe into the general fund (they've done that since before I became pastor, here). Also, at every church I've ever been at (whether as member, staff pastor, or lead pastor), there have been members who have done so.
There is no prohibition against it. |
I know..... just having some fun with this "Affiliate" thing.... we have some do the same.... just wondering if we could ever tag the label and have on our rolls.... "members" and then "affiliate members"..... that would be funny... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
6/30/12 9:20 pm
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| If GA vote |
COG Blessed |
| accepts Affiliate Churches then time will tell the story of how well that works. After all the years of "Church Ownership" by the COG , it is "funny" that it's even being considered. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
6/30/12 11:38 pm
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| Personal Experience |
Dan Eason |
One of our fairly recent ABs called my grandfather because one of the churches in our region wanted to sell the parsonage & refinance the church, both of which happened to be in my grandfather's name, from when he bought them in the 50s. He signed over the deeds, THE END.
Integrity ain't for sale.
_________________
http://areyoureadyfortherapture.blogspot.com/ |
Friendly Face
Posts: 473
7/3/12 3:59 pm
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| Oh, & BTW |
Dan Eason |
The above post has nothing to do with affiliate churches. Affiliate churches happen to be a great idea. My point is simply that one ought to follow whatever rules apply to his or her situation if one would be an ethical person, even more as clergy.
_________________
http://areyoureadyfortherapture.blogspot.com/ |
Friendly Face
Posts: 473
7/3/12 4:02 pm
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