Actscelerate.com

What would you do to IMPROVE MIP?

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **9/7/12 6:41 pm**

There's a fairly intense discussion on the board concerning the cost of the COG Ministerial Intern Program, MIP. Several posters have mentioned that MIP was beneficial to them and others have said it's not worth the cost.

We feel COG officials and specifically those who are involved in leadership at MIP, are dedicated folk who want to do the best job possible.

It's perfectly in order to examine and evaluate our COG programs but when we do, the next step should be to help find solutions. What do you feel would help MIP be more effective and affordable?

Doyle
writedoyle@yahoo.com[/i]
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

First thing...

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **9/7/12 6:46 pm**

If the candidate completed a degree in Bible or pastoral ministries from Lee the MIP should be waived.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation

Re: First thing...

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **9/7/12 7:45 pm**

We should receive ministers based on...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/7/12 8:03 pm**

appropriate recommendations from ministers in good standing.

Such recommendations should address the elements necessary to solid ministry:

1) Calling
2) Scriptural Knowledge
3) Faithfulness/Reputation
4) And the such like....

Along with this might be the requirement that the person in question be of such-and-such and age, have been in the Church of God for X amount of time, and so on.

Very simply, the MIP, as well-intentioned as it is, is not a one-size-fits-all process. For someone relatively new to ministry, it's likely the best route. For, say, an independent pastor who will get no "pass" to Church of God licensure because he knows this or that person, it's a bit ludicrous to ask him to go through a process to prepare him for what he's already been doing for the past X years.

Now, a REFRESHER type course that could be taken during a Prayer Conference? Fine. Every minister, from top to bottom, could likely benefit from such things. But to put someone in a drawn-out, costly process when that person has a proven record, numerous and reputable recommendation, and the such, is certainly lacking in some way.

Re: First thing...

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **9/7/12 8:23 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3954 **9/8/12 6:29 am**

Standardize it. As it is, each state calls its own shots.
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Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **9/8/12 8:38 am**

What would you do to improve MIP

Member Posts: 38 **9/8/12 9:08 am**

It is so uncanny that MIP is a topic of discussion on Actscelerate at this particular time.

Yesterday {Friday}, as the new Director of the Division of Education [being elected to the office of Second Assistant General Overseer]....I conducted the first full staff meeting with the entire DOE family, which includes the Coordinators of CIMS, CAMS, and MIP.

What is uncanny is that I began the meeting by making this statement: "There are three questions that we must always be asking ourselves....

First: What is the 'perception' of our work by the people we serve outside of Cleveland, Tennessee"?

Second: what changes need to be made in MIP?... Why? How? When?

Third: How can the Division of Education serve the local church in new and significant ways?"

I believe now, as I always have, that the International Offices, as well as our State/Regional Offices "exist" for the sole purpose of serving the local church! This is our purpose for being!

Late last night I decided to see what was being discussed on Actscelerate, and to my amazement it was MIP. I immediately emailed several people on our DOE leadership team, and asked them to login...

We are reading your posts...the concerns of the people we serve are important to us and will be taken seriously.

Please, be mindful that some things concerning Licensure and Ministerial Training are "mandated" by our highest governing body, the General Assembly. While there may be flexibility in some things... the directives of the General Assembly are the bottom line.

Also, the Division of Education, like all Divisions and Departments in the International Offices are operating on declining underwriting from the Tithe Fund. The reality is that each local church is keeping more of the tithe and sending less to fund State and International services...

And, likewise... the leadership in each state/region also have reducing incomes which impact the delivery system of MIP.

Thank you for your input, and allowing me the privilege of serving you!

_________________
J. DAVID [JIM] STEPHENS

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1458 **9/8/12 10:51 am**

One of he questions I've had about this is why we force young ministers to go through both Cams and MIP? When MIP first came out it was mandated to help prepare young ministers for ministry, it also help sift out some that perhaps were unsure or unready to be in ministry. The Cams program was presented at the GA and voted down, now it is mandated. So we have young couples that pay their way through the Cams program, take the summer off, and then enter the MIP, which is equally as expensive.

I fail,to see the reasoning of this, and question the validity of forcing a program the GA voted not to make mandatory. Not meaning to seem negative, I do see the value of preparation, but why vote on it if it's going to be imposed and mandated afterward...just institute it and move on.

Education and preparation are a lifetime journey for all of us, I just think we need to be mindful of these young ministers time and finances.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **9/8/12 10:57 am**

I am actually working on a document this weekend concerning the awareness of a healthy lifestyle as it relates to holiness living. I am not sure who will get it but it is for MIP.

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 **9/8/12 11:03 am**

The internship should be served out in 2 or 3 types of environments IF POSSIBLE.

I grew up in a small church. When I joined a church I joined a small church. When I was an intern, I interned at a.....small church. There is nothing wrong with a small church, but as an intern I know I would have been better prepared had I served as intern at a larger church, at least for a while.

I think this would also relieve some of the intern pastors from having to make such a large commitment of their time (if split between two or three).

Rely less on books

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **9/8/12 12:23 pm**

Over the years, I developed an extensive library of books. I've always been a fan of books. However, without any intent of being disrespectful to books and the many fond memories of fantastic hours of reading, I also very much liked the cassette player and also had a sizable collection of 8-trac tapes.

Wow! Zooming down I-99 near Fresno, CA with the top down on my 390 Mustang and the 8-trac booming...great memories. However, as much as I enjoyed the 8-trac then, I wouldn't recommend it now because there are so many better-quality ways of listening to music.

I don't have inside information about MIP costs to the denomination, but I would imagine the cost of books is a major part of the expense. And that is almost certainly true concerning the cost to the students.

Possibly there is a way to cut the cost in a major way by depending less on books and going more to online presentations. Some publishers may allow their material to be placed online with the promise that links to their site would be included in MIP presentations.

Others may want a one-time "buyout" of the rights to use their book and others, the wise ones, knowing they could lose all revenue gained from the sale of their books to MIP, would possibly allow COG-approved students to pay a small one-time usage fee of their online material.

MIP could set up an online library of the required books for MIP studies and the student could maybe pay a small usage fee online allowing them to download that book for a limited period of time. Should they desire to do so, they could purchase the book then or at a later time.

The music industry had to come to grips with this major social shift. They once required people to purchase an album with many songs on it but the internet and things like I-tunes, now allows the listener to purchase the rights to download one song.

Also, it may be that similar info included in some of the books now used by MIP, is already online from other sources and the right to use them can be purchased for pennies on the dollar.

If however, profit from books sales is to also help fund MIP or if well-connected people are earning a sizable personal profit from book sales, making a transition to online, would be more difficult. That statement is not intended to be negative in any way because in some way or another, all programs require funding.

That's my opinion and I welcome the opportunity to view yours.

Doyle
writedoyle@yahoo.com
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

MIP training by links, not books

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **9/8/12 12:39 pm**

As stated previously, I'm a fan of books. But the internet has brought such a social shift, until even large book stores like Barnes and Nobles are struggling. I may love my fishing boat but if it's sinking, to stay alive I have to find a different way to make progress.

Instead of having to read so many books, why not set up MIP by online links. If for example, if the topic is on Leading Worship, why not search the internet and find the absolute best material on there about leading worship.

Obviously, the link choices would need to be within our COG basic doctrinal guidelines but maybe Lee U, the AG, Church of God of Prophecy, Pentecostal Holiness and fundamental schools like Liberty U or Oral Roberts U would have info about that.

Or, since many great Pentecostal churches now stream their worship services, why not link to them as examples of how a good job of leading worship can be done. That could especially be important to the student since it would allow them to actually see how it's done rather than reading books and books about.

As the famed preacher from the 1920's, Billy Sunday once said, "One spark of fire will tell us more about the power of gunpowder than all the books in the world."

Of course, numbers of our COG congregations stream their services and could be good examples of how a good worship service is to be conducted.

Doyle
writedoyle@yahoo.com
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

My recommendations...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/8/12 12:41 pm**

Along with creating a shorter licensure path based on the recommendation of godly, reputable, respected Church of God ministers, I want to add two more things that I think are absolutely ESSENTIAL:

1) A COURSE OF STUDY THAT EXPOSES APPLICANTS TO OUR DENOMINATION'S GREATEST SERMONS. Some years ago, while speaking to a young, up-and-coming Church of God minister, I was stunned to learn that he had never heard a Ray H. Hughes sermon. This was not some newby--this was a lifelong Church of God member, Lee and Seminary educated! I propose that EVERY person who is going for licensure be required to listen to a respected body of sermons from our most noted Church of God preachers. While great sermons are preached every Sunday, we all know that there are a group of renowned sermons that have stood out for decades. For example:

The Anointing Makes the Difference (Ray Hughes)
Burdens of the Ministry (Ray Hughes)
Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty (Wade Horton)
If You Can Take It, You Can Make It (Gene Rice)
Great Campmeeting sermons (e.g., Paul Henson, 1972 FL Campmeeting)
etc.

There are surely a set of sermons that almost everyone can agree are showcases of "Church of God preaching," that are anointed, and have had tremendous effect. New preachers would gain an understanding of our heritage, as well as be made to better understand anointed preaching. If nothing else, it will bless and encourage them!

2) An immersion in Church of God HISTORY--NOT POLITY! It is not nearly so important to know who this or that department head reports to, as it is to know about the roots and vision of the early Church of God. Every Church of God preacher should, ideally, be launched with the flaming passion that the Church of God is the very re-establishment of the early Christian Church on the earth. If they don't think we are a very special and favored organization, then let them go elsewhere.

AJT and others were CONVINCED that the Church of God was the literal unveiling of the church that had been "lost" through division and creeds for nearly 2000 years. They understood us to be utterly distinct in the incredible blend of Pentecostal expression and miracles (including snake handling, oddly enough) AND church government. While we acknowledged that other Pentecostals were in the world, we realized that God had given us an edge in church government, which permitted us to focus that Pentecostal power and not spin out of control. Every licensure applicant should not just read "Like a Mighty Army" (at least the first half of the book), but take a deeper dive into the exceptionalism of the Church of God.

Yes, let's teach the polity of the Church of God, but let's focus on doctrine and the history of the church. That is far more important, I think, to longevity and effectiveness than knowing political organizational structure.

Just my thoughts.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **9/8/12 12:50 pm**

Do y'all know what the current process is? You're making suggestions assuming you know. Maybe you do. The reason I ask is that I am involved in being in the process. Did you know that? There are probably other changes going on. Do you know what they are?

MIP SKYPE Advisory Sessions

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **9/8/12 12:54 pm**

When Linda's Uncle was struggling with cancer, one Sunday we attended church with him just to spend time with him and his wife.

That morning, for about 15 minutes, the church featured visiting missionaries. A young couple from that church had gone to Cyprus a year earlier but instead of flying all the way back to the states to visit their home church which was supporting them financially, the pastor placed his laptop on the pulpit and "Skyped" them in.

Appearing on a large screen in front of the church, they were able to share their story and give updates live as the Pastor interviewed them. I don't know if it works like that everywhere but the Pastor said the missions offerings for that couple were just as large for their Skype presentations as when they made an personal visit to the church.

The couple shared their missions financial needs and while they were still on screen, the offering for them was received.

Tons of sales organizations now do training and get immediate feedback from sales persons all around the country by using Skype. Possibly MIP could put that to use also.

For example, let's say there are 200 MIP students. Let them know when one of the top Master Pastors will be available online and let them ask him or her questions and get their feedback. Or, allow them to set in as the Director of the MIP program does an interview with some Master Pastors etc.

Obviously, nothing will take the place of the student being on location with a good Master Pastor but maybe Skype could be used to enhance the training.

Doyle
writedoyle@yahoo.com
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **9/8/12 1:04 pm**

I have been in several COG conferences in which Skype was used as well as online broadcasting. Do we know that they are not using these with MIP?

Re: What would you do to improve MIP

Acts-dicted Posts: 7821 **9/8/12 1:27 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3954 **9/8/12 2:06 pm**

I have a question...

Is THIS post the FIRST in HISTORY by one of our selected leaders that sit in our highest offices (The EC) to post in an effort to be collaborative, interested, empowering and serving? If not, it is the first I have ever witnessed and it says VOLUMES about not only this man, J David Stephens, but the culture that I believe will be indicative of this administration.

Thank you, Rev Stephens!!!

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **9/8/12 2:13 pm**

That you know of. Very Happy