Actscelerate.com

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/13/16 11:24 am**

If you read very much of her writings, you will see that she holds scripture in high regard and that she is very knowledgeable about scripture. One thing I've noticed is that sometimes her writing does not reveal all the research she has done to arrive at a particular point.
Be that as it may, the nature of the Trinity is a whole 'nother ball of wax. We are not going to solve age old debates by citing one verse in 1 Corinthians. Sorry.
My point in bringing up the Trinity is to challenge Carolyn to ask herself is she is putting hierarchy in the Trinity without realizing it or perhaps in just a cursory way in order to make 1 Corinthians 11:3 fit a preconceived notion that has not really been examined.
A discussion about the nature of the Trinity might best be served in another thread.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/13/16 11:25 am**

A few more words about 1 Corinthians 11:3

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/13/16 11:59 am**

I have read a lot over the last few years with respect to this verse (as well as the whole of chapter 11). I remember Tom Sterbens had sent me a link to one of the late Dr. Kenneth Bailey's teachings on chapter 11. I was listening with rapt attention as Dr. Bailey brought to bear his illustrious scholarship on these passages. With bated breath I waited to hear what he would say about the woman having authority on her head because of the angels. You can imagine how caught off guard I was when Dr. Bailey gave a little chuckle and said, "I don't know what that means."
I'll have to say it was refreshing, though, and I wish more people might be willing to acknowledge that. Cool

Anyway, because I've come across so much material, I don't always remember where I've read what. That can be annoying when I want to go back and find something.
In any case, here is something from Gordon Fee (that was also quoted on a blog I came across) that is in the book Discovering Biblical Equality, which I'm slowly working my way through:
“The earliest extant consistent interpretation of the metaphor in this passage is to be found in a younger contemporary of Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444?), who explicitly interprets in terms of the Greek metaphor: “Thus we can say that ‘the head of every man is Christ.’ For he was made by [dia] him … as God; ‘but the head of the women is the man,’ because she was taken out of his flesh…. Likewise ‘the head of Christ is God,’ because he is of him [ex autou] by nature” (Ad Arcadiam et Marinam 5.6). That is, as with Chrysostom’s understanding of the two pairs (God-Christ, Christ-man), Cyril is ready to go this way with all three pairs because of what is said in verse 8: that the woman was created from the man. Not only was the idea that the head is the source of supply and support for all the body’s systems a natural metaphor in the Greek world, but in this case it also supported Cyril’s Christological concern (not to have Christ “under” God in a hierarchy), just as it did for Chrysostom.” (From “Praying and Prophesying in the Assemblies” in Discovering Biblical Equality. 151.)

1 Corinthians 11:3

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/13/16 12:17 pm**

Here is a quote from Gilbert Bilezikian on this passage:

Sometimes, the word head in this text is carelessly infused with its meaning in the English language to obtain this hierarchical order: God head over Christ—Christ head over man—man head over woman. This top-down vertical “chain of command” would then go as follows: GodChrist-man-woman.

However, such results are obtained by manipulating the biblical text. In order to make the text say what the Scripture does not teach in this passage, its three clauses must be taken out of their original sequence and rearranged. The apostle Paul knows exactly how to structure hierarchies in perfect descending order (see 12:28, for instance). In 1 Cor. 11:3, he is not structuring a hierarchy. In keeping with the theme developed in the immediate context, Paul is discussing the traditional significance of origination. The sequence that links the three clauses is not hierarchy but chronology. At creation, Christ was the giver of life to men as the source of the life of Adam (“by him all things were created” Col. 1:16). In turn, man gave life to the woman as she was taken from him. Then, God gave life to the Son as he came into the world for the incarnation. When the biblical sequence of the three clauses is not tampered with, the consistent meaning of head in this verse is that of a servant function, as provider of life.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/13/16 9:38 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/13/16 9:39 pm**

Joyce and Dave

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2447 **6/14/16 10:23 am**

Joyce and Dave Meyer seem to have it all worked out.

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **6/16/16 6:01 am**

Re-read the 1 Cor 11 passage.

The covering (veil) is not for the woman. It's for her head. Who is her head and how does she cover (veil) him? The hair thing is just a cultural illustration Paul is using.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/16/16 7:16 am**

Brad, I think there is more than one use of the word head in the passage. There is the literal head, the knob on top of one's neck, and the metaphorical head, i.e., the man is the woman's head. I believe the interpretation you posted earlier is allegorical, and while I don't disagree with your conclusion that each believer is to reveal or unveil Christ, I don't believe that is the correct reading of this passage.
It makes sense to me that in the culture Paul was addressing, it would be entirely possible for a woman to shame her literal head by her actions as well as her husband (or whatever man she was supposed to be showing honor).
I don't think the covering or headship here has to do with authority, though. And I agree with Link that "covering" does not refer to a person.
I enjoyed this video, which is excerpts from an NT Wright lecture. Start at the 6:00 minute mark if you want to hear some of his commentary on 1 Corinthians 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwj287xr0uQ&list=PLimp3_MyDabcvxa7omhaxgS5dlMyx4ZY5