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Quiet Wyatt |
I confess I am in a bit of a quandary on this issue. Having known personally of some "ultraconservative dress" Christians who nevertheless committed fornication or adultery, and having for a time been a part of a local church that was very old fashioned conservative dress, I can tell you with a certainty that "let's come down harder on the womenfolk on the way they dress" just doesn't deal with the real problem.
On the other hand, I am most definitely not in favor of the idea that ANY standard at all somehow has to equal legalism or 'clothesline religion.'
I also know that men are just kidding themselves if they think they would somehow be free from sexual desires if they didn't see scantily clad women around. To be sure, the more visual stimulation one gets the more aggravated the problem can become, but as we see in Muslim countries where burka-wearing women are often raped (and then blamed for somehow inciting the rape), attempting to enforce a strict dress code on women really doesn't get to the root of the problem, which is the sin of PRIDE. It is such a delicate balance to strike for everyone. How to be humble without absolutely despising yourself, how to try to look your best without prideful motives.
I think every woman (especially every young woman) has a basic need to feel attractive, to be wanted. Where the line is drawn between pride and a healthy self-image, wanting to look one's best, wanting people to find you attractive, is hard to say.
Like all things spiritual, it ultimately comes down to an issue of the heart. What is one's motivation for how one dresses, how one tries to appear? If one's heart is pure in its love for God and fellow man, one will never try to defraud another by actively trying to tempt another to sin.
Paul and the early Christians had to deal with rampant immodesty and immorality in their culture too. Ultimately we can't control what other people wear, and the best we can do is try to model modesty and sobriety to others, teaching if we have opportunity what the Christian's attitude towards personal appearance should be--humility and godly love one for another.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 4/23/11 3:34 pm; edited 3 times in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/23/11 3:28 pm
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| Re: Travis, humor me please |
Travis Johnson |
| The strict Constructionis wrote: | | Is it proper and godly for a CoG or AoG minister of ANY age or sex to post sexually provocative photos of themselves on FB? |
I certainly don't think it's proper.
| Quote: | | If they do, should their State Overseer admonish them? |
Absolutely not. The person who saw it is responsible. We aren't supposed to have a gossip network that requires sin to bubble up meandering along until the head guy fins out about it. A brother should be a brother. Jesus said that if someone sinned against you, go to that person.
Seems pretty straight-forward...a lot easier than a bunch of passive aggressive talk on a message board and complaining that someone else hasn't taken action when it's your action to take.
In fact, the Bible says that if someone knows to do good and doesn't he's sinning. So, why haven't you already done right? Or, is it more satisfying to the flesh to talk about lesser people, more sinful people than yourself while you wear a virtual burqa and aren't accountable for your own appearance? |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
4/23/11 3:30 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | I confess I am in a bit of a quadary on this issue. Having known personally of some "ultraconservative dress" Christians who nevertheless committed fornication or adultery, and having for a time been a part of a local church that was very old fashioned conservative dress, I can tell you with a certainty that "let's come down harder on the womenfolk on the way they dress" just doesn't deal with the real problem.
On the other hand, I am most definitely not in favor of the idea that ANY standard at all somehow has to equal legalism or 'clothesline religion.'
I also know that men are just kidding themselves if they think they would somehow be free from sexual desires if they didn't see scantily clad women around. To be sure, the more visual stimulation one gets the more aggravated the problem can become, but as we see in Muslim countries where burka-wearing women are often raped (and then blamed for somehow inciting the rape), attempting to enforce a strict dress code on women really doesn't get to the root of the problem, which is PRIDE. It is such a delicate balance to strike for everyone. How to be humble without absolutely despising yourself, how to try to look your best without prideful motives.
I think every woman (especially every young woman) has a basic need to feel attractive, to be wanted. Where the line is drawn between pride and a healthy self-image, wanting to look one's best, wanting people to find you attractive, is hard to say.
Like all things spiritual, it ultimately comes down to an issue of the heart. What is one's motivation for how one dresses, how one tries to appear? If one's heart is pure in its love for God and fellow man, one will never try to defraud another by actively trying to tempt another to sin.
Paul and the early Christians had to deal with rampant immodesty and immorality in their culture too. Ultimately we can't control what other people wear, and the best we can do is try to model modesty and sobriety to others, teaching if we have opportunity, what the Christian's attitude towards personal appearance should be--humility and godly love one for another. |
amen. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
4/23/11 3:31 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I should hasten to add that PRIDE is also very much at the root of any man's conscious desire to view women as sexual prey. It is also at the root of "clothesline religion" as far as I have seen it.
Pride and unbelief are at the root of all sin. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/23/11 3:42 pm
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| Does God excuse lust... |
diakoneo |
when we are tempted by our "sister" or "brothers"? Of course not. Sometimes, (but not always) temptation ends in lust. Lust is not always apparent from the outside.
James 1:14. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lust being defined (imo) that it reaches a point where we do it in our mind and given the opportunity would do it "for real." There may be all kinds of lusting going on then, in any church.
I see all kind of discussion on here of Pastors succumbing to "moral failure" and it is usually with a sister in Christ. Wonder if it started out as a mere temptation on an "eye level" and got worse....hmmm. It always does!!! So why not nip it in the bud. No tempting Christian, no Lusting Christian... and I know there are athiest, new agers, pagans, that will tempt, but we are talking about what we can do...at least in the church house for goodness sake!! |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
4/23/11 3:42 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| Link wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: | | Link wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: |
No, teaching women to dress modestly to avoid tempting men is a valuable use of time. |
Then, we should teach people to park their nice cars behind the church so we don't cause people with hoopties to covet. |
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One thing I notice with Peter's comments on dress is that they seem very much concerned with flaunting wealth, showing gold and pearls. When I was about 20 or 21 or so I went down to the autoparts store wearing a pair of shorts and a T-shirt. I was going to a Congregational Holiness church at the time. The owners of the shop were from the Fire-Baptized Holiness church, a church where the men cut their grass wearing long sleeves. We got into a conversation about such issues. I was wearing a cheap plastic watch. That was against their rules. They could have a pocket watch. Not a gold one, but a silver one was okay. My five dollar plastic watch was forbidden, but a silver pocket watch was okay. Come to find out, one of the guys I was talking to drove a yellow Corvette.
Maybe as Christians we should be careful not to drive too flashy of a car. I agree that some of these things are culturally relative, too, and some of it isn't.
But isn't the appetite for sex different than the appetite for a fancier car? It hits men at a much 'baser' level. It's lower on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I know we are all different. I don't think of myself as that materialistic. I'm more into function. I'm okay with a minivan. It performs the same function as a Mercedes sedan-- even more. I can take the kids and a guest. Maybe some men just don't have a big appetite for sex but struggle with covetousness when they see a BMW.
I think of the desire for sex, especially for a man in his late teens and early 20s, as a more fundamental desire like the one for food.
If someone has vowed to the Lord that he is going to fast, are you going to put a nice juicy stake sacrificed to an idol under his nose and then blame him if he eats it?
"Sorry Bub, you shouldn't have given in to temptation."
Of course you wouldn't do that. And I would hope church leaders would speak out against that if it were a common practice. Paul gave numerous reasons not to eat meat offered to idols, and one of them was causing the weaker brother to stumble.
The following is an extreme example, I know, but you seem to be advocating the idea that churches should not address the modesty issue. Let's say a pastor of a church in suburban America had attractive women attending who came to church stark naked. They'd come to church totally naked. The pastor's position was that we not be concerned with externals, so he didn't say anything. Some people complained. Women who wore clothes would talk about it to their husbands, trying to convince them that there was a problem with it. After a while, the pastor got wind that this was a concern. One day, one of the female song leaders decided to go with the fashion and she went up on stage completely naked, too.
Would you have a problem with this? Do you think the pastor is being negligent? Would you be able to go to church without a problem doing this?
I have heard that Arthur Blessed, the guy who carried a cross around the world, went right into the dressing room of a strip club and shared the Gospel with naked women. Maybe he did so without sin. But I don't think most guys function that way.
What would you say to a Christian young man who said he went to strip clubs, and it was okay. He said the Bible says not to look with lust on a woman. He says he has such a firm control of his heart that he can go there, look even, without looking with lust, and so its okay. What advice would you give a man like that?
| Quote: | Let us keep our large families away from people who are barren.
And, for those of us who are married, let's not appear to enjoy the company of our spouse so we don't tempt those who are single and want to be married to be envious or jealous. |
I see all these family metaphors in the New Testament, and I see a sense of community among the saints in the church. I also see that husbands and wives are supposed to love one another. I don't see how all that fits with what you are facetiously advocating here to make your point.
But what I don't see in the New Testament are any hints that we are supposed to show a lot of flesh to each other and if the other person is bothered with lust, its their problem.
| Quote: |
People, the reason we teach people to follow Jesus should first and foremost be....to follow Jesus because He is God and worthy to be followed. <---this is our everything...the main thing. The aesthetics of everything else is secondary and should flow out of our followership of Jesus. Should we remove stumbling blocks from one another? Yes. |
Sure, I am not disagreeing with you here.
| Quote: |
Should other's weakness dominate our existence? No. We should teach them to follow Jesus and to crucify their own rotten flesh.
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Isn't teaching people to dress modestly and not to tempt other sexually with their lack of clothing teaching people to put to death the deads of the flesh?
| Quote: | | If we try to please the most strict personal conviction of the most bitter, tense person, we give the trump card to all of our behavioral activities to the loudest member of the body. |
It seems to me that you might be over-reacting to clothesline religion.
No one is advocating that. I am saying that churches should teach people not to display their bodies in a way to tempt other people sexually (spouses excluded.) Do you disagree with that statement?
This is an area of teaching where many church leaders have been negligent, IMO, and something that is very much needed in the sexually immoral culture of the day. |
That's a whole lot of words for such a simple issue. You lost me with the yellow corvette is more enticing than a plastic watch which is more enticing than the long sleeved lawn mowing guy. That sounds like a whole lot of gnat straining to me.
How about this? Love Jesus. Follow Him. Humble ourselves to Him. Give up our self-centerdness, immodesty to Him. And, if someone looks down on you because you live in a 3 br house instead of a more modest 1 room apartment, love them and pray for them...but, know you aren't trumped by their persuasion.
Follow Jesus. Crucify your own lusts and desires. Love and lead the people in your influence into passionate pursuit of Him. That's a massive battle in itself. |
Acts-dicted
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4/23/11 3:44 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
Quiet Wyatt |
| diakoneo wrote: | when we are tempted by our "sister" or "brothers"? Of course not. Sometimes, (but not always) temptation ends in lust. Lust is not always apparent from the outside.
James 1:14. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lust being defined (imo) that it reaches a point where we do it in our mind and given the opportunity would do it "for real." There may be all kinds of lusting going on then, in any church.
I see all kind of discussion on here of Pastors succumbing to "moral failure" and it is usually with a sister in Christ. Wonder if it started out as a mere temptation on an "eye level" and got worse....hmmm. It always does!!! So why not nip it in the bud. No tempting Christian, no Lusting Christian... and I know there are athiest, new agers, pagans, that will tempt, but we are talking about what we can do...at least in the church house for goodness sake!! |
True, except ultraconservative "holiness" dressing folk also commit adultery sometimes.
There simply is no way an external law can guarantee holy living. It can't even produce truly holy living. |
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Posts: 12817
4/23/11 3:45 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
Travis Johnson |
| diakoneo wrote: | when we are tempted by our "sister" or "brothers"? Of course not. Sometimes, (but not always) temptation ends in lust. Lust is not always apparent from the outside.
James 1:14. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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We lust. We sin. Because of OUR flesh...not someone else's...at least according to Scripture.
Do Gospel men have moral failures because of some woman?! I guess so if you want to scapegoat a woman. Or, you could say, "he was drawn away of HIS OWN LUST."
The same goes for the woman. She was drawn away of HER OWN LUST.
Let's leave fault at fault's door and not become complicated in trying to figure out how it went down by assigning complicated paths of blame. If we sin, it's our fault. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
4/23/11 3:48 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
diakoneo |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | diakoneo wrote: | when we are tempted by our "sister" or "brothers"? Of course not. Sometimes, (but not always) temptation ends in lust. Lust is not always apparent from the outside.
James 1:14. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Lust being defined (imo) that it reaches a point where we do it in our mind and given the opportunity would do it "for real." There may be all kinds of lusting going on then, in any church.
I see all kind of discussion on here of Pastors succumbing to "moral failure" and it is usually with a sister in Christ. Wonder if it started out as a mere temptation on an "eye level" and got worse....hmmm. It always does!!! So why not nip it in the bud. No tempting Christian, no Lusting Christian... and I know there are athiest, new agers, pagans, that will tempt, but we are talking about what we can do...at least in the church house for goodness sake!! |
True, except ultraconservative "holiness" dressing folk also commit adultery sometimes.
There simply is no way an external law can guarantee holy living. It can't even produce truly holy living. |
That is why I said, there is lust going on in the Church anyway. Some are tempted by other things besides a sexy dress. Power, money, etc. There are plenty of things to fall prey to. But enticement of the sexual variety seems more blatant. The end of that sin is a sin against the body. The wife (even if the person is not married, his future wife) The home. The family. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
4/23/11 3:58 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
Link |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: |
True, except ultraconservative "holiness" dressing folk also commit adultery sometimes.
There simply is no way an external law can guarantee holy living. It can't even produce truly holy living. |
External laws are not guarantee of holy living. It is a matter of the heart.
But I wonder how many women in those churches who do fall into adultery were purposefully showing a little too much ankle or wrist. 
_________________
Link
Last edited by Link on 4/23/11 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
4/23/11 4:01 pm
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The strict Constructionis |
Quiet Wyatt said,
| Quote: | | I also know that men are just kidding themselves if they think they would somehow be free from sexual desires if they didn't see scantily clad women around. |
I could not agree more. As I said in my original post, a guy with a lust problem is going to lust if a woman is dressed old time CoG or is dressed like Lady Ga Ga.
| Quote: | | I confess I am in a bit of a quandary on this issue. Having known personally of some "ultraconservative dress" Christians who nevertheless committed fornication or adultery, |
You and me both. I know of two young ladies right now who dress the "clothes line" and have caused every boy friend they have to stumble. Yes, they were the instigators in these cases. Yet they can pray, cry, shout and go through all the other Pentecostal calisthenics like you would not believe. Thankfully they are the exception and not the rule.
Travis said,
| Quote: | | Absolutely not. The person who saw it is responsible. We aren't supposed to have a gossip network that requires sin to bubble up meandering along until the head guy fins out about it. A brother should be a brother. Jesus said that if someone sinned against you, go to that person. |
Sorry, but it's not 'gossip" when it's right there for the whole world to see. And the Bible does have different criteria for rebuking elders. It does not matter how the State officials find out. They still need to take action.
| Quote: | | In fact, the Bible says that if someone knows to do good and doesn't he's sinning. So, why haven't you already done right? Or, is it more satisfying to the flesh to talk about lesser people, more sinful people than yourself while you wear a virtual burqa and aren't accountable for your own appearance? |
Again, I'm not in her chain of command and her actions haven't effected me personally one way or another. I just pointed out these two examples to draw attention to a greater problem throughout the Pentecostal ranks...a lack of a revelation of God's holiness. It seems to be satisfying to YOUR flesh to attack those who are concerned as SHEPHERDS over such wolves that are sneaking into destroy the flock. No, I'm not calling these two ladies wolves. I'm referring to the seducing spirits that are influencing them and many others.
The passive, hands off "let God take care of it" attitude of so called "leaders" today would not have been practiced by the Apostles. Yes, we should always "consider ourselves lest we be tempted" and "restore such a one in a spirit of meekness". But we should really be asking how it EVER got to the point where members and leaders of Pentecostal churches would ever DREAM of doing such things without the slightest trace of conviction. It seems you don't have time to consider that question, let alone the answer.
Last edited by The strict Constructionis on 4/23/11 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4295
4/23/11 4:01 pm
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Link |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | Link wrote: | | You lost me with the yellow corvette is more enticing than a plastic watch which is more enticing than the long sleeved lawn mowing guy. That sounds like a whole lot of gnat straining to me. |
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It seemed like gnat straining to me as well.
My point about that was that some of the modesty passages were about not flaunting wealth. I never thought of flaunting wealth as enticing others. It can serve to divide by creating social barriers between people. James 2 and respect of persons comes to mind.
Modestly is not all about sexual temptation.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
4/23/11 4:04 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Link wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: |
True, except ultraconservative "holiness" dressing folk also commit adultery sometimes.
There simply is no way an external law can guarantee holy living. It can't even produce truly holy living. |
External laws are not guarantee of holy living. It is a matter of the heart.
But I wonder how many women in those churches who do fall into adultery were purposefully showing a little too much ankle or wrist. |
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Posts: 12817
4/23/11 4:10 pm
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| Re: Does God excuse lust... |
Link |
| Travis Johnson wrote: |
We lust. We sin. Because of OUR flesh...not someone else's...at least according to Scripture. |
In Matthew 18, Jesus warns that it would be better that a millstone be tied around a man's neck and that he be thrown into the depths of the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. Paul writes about causing your brother to stumble in I Corinthians 8.
Tempting people to sin is a bad thing. Yes, the one who succumbs to temptation is guilty before God, too.
Eve tempted Adam. She sinned and was held responsible. Adam succumbed to the temptation. He was held responsible as well.
I think one of the reasons people show too much skin on FaceBook or when they go out is because of a lack of teaching. A lot of preachers don't touch on the topic. I live in Hawaii, and in some churches some of the women will attend showing a lot of skin. I don't know about the mainland, but showing too much skin has gotten into the church here.
| Quote: |
Do Gospel men have moral failures because of some woman?! I guess so if you want to scapegoat a woman. Or, you could say, "he was drawn away of HIS OWN LUST."
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Scapegoat the woman? The scapegoat didn't commit the sin in the Bible. But unless there is rape involved, it takes two to tango.
| Quote: |
Let's leave fault at fault's door and not become complicated in trying to figure out how it went down by assigning complicated paths of blame. If we sin, it's our fault. |
And if we tempt someone to sin, it is our own fault. Let's teach against doing that, too.
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Acts-perienced Poster
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4/23/11 4:13 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| The strict Constructionis wrote: | | The passive, hands off "let God take care of it" attitude of so called "leaders" today would not have been practiced by the Apostles. |
You are the one being passive. You saw what you believe to be sin. You didn't address it. You came here to talk about it and ask why an AB hadn't done anything about it.
You don't know how I interact with people I engage with...though that hasn't stopped you from dragging my wife, my daughters, ABs, church leaders, all women, and other groups of people into your accusatory diatribe.
The bottom line is that you saw behavior within your scope of relational influence that you believed to be sin. Your choice wasn't to go to that person and lovingly confront them with an aim to help them grow or to restore them. Your response was to castigate everyone but yourself and malign individuals on Actscelerate.
This isn't even a matter of personal conviction or aesthetic standards as we all acknowledge how powerful and persuasive our own flesh is. This is an issue of you being unwilling to do what is reasonable with your own voice yet finding fault for everyone else who isn't doing anything about it.
Own your stuff. And, stop leaping over facts and delving into the motivations of individuals you don't know. You do this with issues of race as well. It isn't fair to other good brothers and sisters who are genuinely good and decent people undeserving of your harshness and uncaring barbs. |
Acts-dicted
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4/23/11 4:42 pm
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Link |
| Travis Johnson wrote: |
You are the one being passive. You saw what you believe to be sin. You didn't address it. You came here to talk about it and ask why an AB hadn't done anything about it. |
AB? I thought the woman in question was AOG.
I see a lot of assumptions on all sides. How do you know Strict didn't speak with this woman about the issue? That is an assumption, too. Whether he did or didn't, I could see why this would cause him to raise the issue of why many church leaders ignore the issue of showing too much skin.
Speaking of dressing modestly, is that a picture of you wearing a 'board shirt' used for surfing at a baptism? There's a way to encourage modest dressing by example.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
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4/23/11 5:57 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| Link wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: |
You are the one being passive. You saw what you believe to be sin. You didn't address it. You came here to talk about it and ask why an AB hadn't done anything about it. |
AB? I thought the woman in question was AOG.
I see a lot of assumptions on all sides. How do you know Strict didn't speak with this woman about the issue? That is an assumption, too. Whether he did or didn't, I could see why this would cause him to raise the issue of why many church leaders ignore the issue of showing too much skin. |
He raised the issue of COG AB as well. And, he didn't talk with her. He said he didn't. No assumption. |
Acts-dicted
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4/23/11 6:00 pm
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The strict Constructionis |
| Quote: | | You are the one being passive. You saw what you believe to be sin. You didn't address it. You came here to talk about it and ask why an AB hadn't done anything about it. |
Wrong. This is not about something someone did to ME. You take the scripture out of context. I've already explained my motivations for using her as an example. Furthermore, I'm not being passive, because I practice PREVENTION and regularly remind saints as to God's expectations for "ye who are spiritual among you" and who are mature in the Lord, ESPECIALLY for those in leadership. I don't sit around and wait for these types of things to start manifesting themselves. No, I can't be nor do I want to be a policeman or pry into people's personal lives. But I can and do make requirements for leaders in my church, and for church sponsored functions.
Where did I learn this? Was it from the UPCI? No. The first 13 years of my Christian life were NOT in the UPCI. I first heard these admonitions in the PH church where I came to the Lord, later in the CoG where I attended for a time right before I went to Bible College in Sept 1984. These same principles were also hammered into us at the AoG affiliated college I attended. We were told that we as leaders had to take precautions that those in the pews did not, especially as the days became more wicked and sinful. We were reminded that what we as leaders did in moderation those under us would do in excess.
When I came home from Bible College in 1988, everything had changed. I was ridiculed by CoG parents where I was youth pastor because I actually required girls to put a tshirt and shorts on over their bikinis if they were not swimming at the youth function. I told them it was wrong for them to be parading around the camp ground that way. Yes, THAT was "too legalistic". I was rebuked by leadership because I refused to take the youth group to see Christian entertainers that I had had personal dealings with whom I knew were not living holy and would not be a good example of Christian maturity and leadership to our youth.
When I created this thread, I asked a simple question. Then I gave examples to reinforce the question. About 2/3 of my brothers who responded have tried hard to make this about me instead of just answering the simple question. I've been told that if it bothers ME, then I should say something. But beyond that, most have not thought that these two examples I gave are indicative of any pattern or problem within the Pentecostal ranks. That's fine. For me this board has been a great barometer as to the condition of Pentecostal leadership and has often made for great quotes in sermons. This post is no exception.
| Quote: | | You don't know how I interact with people I engage with...though that hasn't stopped you from dragging my wife, my daughters, ABs, church leaders, all women, and other groups of people into your accusatory diatribe. |
I never dragged "YOUR" anything into this. The term "your" was referring to your ranks of affiliation. Don't try to kid me. I was still with the CoG as late as 1993 and saw a plenty of "leaders" frolicking around scantly clad at church functions.. Agree or not, the Holy Spirit is grieved.
As for your comments about "race". You only go to prove my point that many people who should know better have fallen victim to political correctness and have been programmed to label their brothers as racist who are only trying to point out racism!! If you can quote me on ANY "barb" concerning race, feel free to do so. If not, then stop slandering me. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4295
4/23/11 6:49 pm
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The strict Constructionis |
| Link wrote: | | Travis Johnson wrote: |
You are the one being passive. You saw what you believe to be sin. You didn't address it. You came here to talk about it and ask why an AB hadn't done anything about it. |
AB? I thought the woman in question was AOG.
I see a lot of assumptions on all sides. How do you know Strict didn't speak with this woman about the issue? That is an assumption, too. Whether he did or didn't, I could see why this would cause him to raise the issue of why many church leaders ignore the issue of showing too much skin.
Speaking of dressing modestly, is that a picture of you wearing a 'board shirt' used for surfing at a baptism? There's a way to encourage modest dressing by example. |
Actually, I've personally seen this young lady one time and that was back in 2001. Because I was father's college roommate, she and I are friends on Face Book and occasionally comment on each others posts. But I'd hardly say that she is within my "sphere of influence". She's actually a sweet kid and reminds me allot of her daddy personality wise. I could have used a thousand people as an example. It just happened to be her.
Travis speaks of my "assumptions" and "accusations" To that I say, "Pot meet kettle". Now he's insinuating I'm a racist. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4295
4/23/11 7:16 pm
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| Loran Livingston- Cover and Conceal |
diakoneo |
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